Education in Crisis Part II

By John Rosenstern

Training Vs. Academics Training treats humans as animals.

It is sensory-driven and very manipulative. The goal of training is to create an experience for the child that moves him away from free will to collective will. In order to accomplish this, Pavlovian/Skinnerian [Mastery Learning (ML)] animal training methods1)Russian Skinnerian-Pavlovian dog training method which is absolutely necessary for global workforce training and mass brainwashing. This dog training method is also known as Mastery Learning (ML); Outcomes Based Education (OBE); Direct Instruction (DI); Performance Based Education (PBE); and Effective Schools. See URL https://rense.com/general96/edupavlov.htm are incorporated. The goal of these training methods is to materially reward correct answers. If a student does not supply the expected response, then he will suffer the punishment of ridicule by the other students, followed by rejection. Students will be less inclined to take controversial stands because they will be trained to know the severe outcome for the wrong answer/behavior.

This concept is also used by Corporations & Churches.

This concept, however, is not just limited to students, but is also used by corporations and churches. The “cell” group strategy in churches uses this manipulative approach to move doctrinally correct believers to compromise and accept significant experiences and newer doctrinal beliefs as a basis for faith as opposed to scripturally based beliefs.

Corporations openly use training techniques for their management force. If you desire to move up the corporate ladder, then you must understand and support the corporate culture. If you desire a promotion, then you will be expected to demonstrate the “actions” that are demanded of you. If you fail to conform, then you could be demoted, moved to an undesirable location, or terminated.

In the business world they call this Total Quality Management (TQM). It is no different than Outcomes Based Education (OBE) used in the public schools. Academically speaking, you can nearly fail and be almost illiterate, but the system will pass you along if you are not viewed as a dissenter, thus meaning that you are unfit to know and think for yourself and are able to take orders. This translates into an indoctrinated new breed of citizens that will vote for those who support socialist policy, protest against those that are critical of the establishment, and be willing to take from those who are producing. The new consciousness is the collective thinking that suggests you are “entitled” to the excesses.

Academics supply the student with a fundamental comprehension of working skills that breed individuality and enables the student to see his likes and personal capabilities. Academics foster creative thinking that leads to innovation. Personal achievement and individual advancement, however, are the enemies of a socialist society. Opportunity is not a reward for proper behavior; neither is it just going along to get along. Opportunity is not sold for the price of fear and abandonment. Opportunity is the freedom to choose, followed by reward for hard work and individual development; it is freedom to trust God and His abounding supply

PSYCHOLOGY, THE FALSE SCIENCE SOCIALIZATION RODE IN ON

The roots that spread into the fertile ground of socialist thinking in education came from the seeds of psychology. This man-centered, ungodly mix of philosophy and humanism, in their minds, supplants man’s need for God. The likes of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Swiss educator Johann Heinrich Pestalozzi believed religion should not be a guiding principle in education.

Rousseau promoted “permissive education” in which a teacher “should avoid strict discipline and tiresome lessons.” Pestalozzi believed the whole child should be educated by “doing.” Under the scientific experiments of Wilhelm Wundt, he posited that humans were nothing more than a body, brain, and nervous system. The way to educate, according to Wundt, is by inducing sensations in the nervous system. Through these experiences, the student will learn to respond to any given stimulus with the correct response. In this setting, a student’s actions are thought to be preconditioned and beyond his control. Thus, according to the student’s thinking, he is his reaction.

The breeding grounds called colleges and universities that control our educators, who in turn indoctrinate our children and young adults, primarily have an agenda. Their outcome, very simply put, is socialism with its goal of total control over society. The ingredients used to accomplish their task is a mixture of so-called scientific research coupled with pre-determined results. Sadly, it is nothing more than human experimentation and war on the human mind. Satan’s end-time push to pervert the mind is to create a new reality that eliminates individuality, thereby creating a new world order. If he can raise up a “new paradigm” of thinking in the church that appears to be of God but is actually another training mechanism to breed socialism, then the church will gladly follow his pernicious way, thinking all the while that they are serving God.

Satan’s greatest weapon is deception, and he only needs disciples of his lie. If Satan’s ministers appear to be angels of righteousness, then unsuspecting Christians will be deceived and become his servants. The infestation of church growth movements like G-12 and The Purpose Driven Life have already ripened the church world to psychological principles and techniques, and have moved many from thesis to consensus (compromise) by the crisis (lie) that the church needs to serve society (anti-thesis). Schools and businesses have done their part to move the process further into society. Television and radio news programs supply ample opportunity for so-called experts to debate various points of view on any given subject. The dialectical process is at work everywhere, as it was designed to be by the planners who desire a new world order.

Extracted from the Evangelist Nov 2018 page 40 Download
Share

References   [ + ]

1. Russian Skinnerian-Pavlovian dog training method which is absolutely necessary for global workforce training and mass brainwashing. This dog training method is also known as Mastery Learning (ML); Outcomes Based Education (OBE); Direct Instruction (DI); Performance Based Education (PBE); and Effective Schools. See URL https://rense.com/general96/edupavlov.htm

Australia (The Green Party) & Christianity “Outlawed” Pushing to have religious freedom drastically reduced.”

Christianity outlawed?
The Greens push to have religious freedom drastically reduced.

In an effort to crack down on religious freedom, the Greens have introduced a new bill seeking to remove religious exemptions from the Sex Discrimination Act 1984, not just for religious schools, but any religious body “connected with the provision of education or training.

In summary, the bill seeks to

“remove the exemptions for religious educational institutions to discriminate against students and teachers on the basis of gender, sexual orientation, gender identification, marital or relationship status or pregnancy; and Fair Work Act 2009 to ensure that religious exemptions from anti-discrimination provisions do not extend to educational institutions.”

According to Mark Sneddon, Executive Director of the Institute for Civil Societythe Green’s Discrimination Free Schools Bill constrains the religious freedom of

any religious body–whether explicitly educational or not–if the practice is connected with the provision by the body of any type of education or training. This would include instruction for ordinary members of the religion, be they in the local church, mosque or synagogue.

“The implications of the Discrimination Free Schools Bill are widespread,” Sneddon goes on to warn.

If passed, it would constrain the ability of many religious Australians to live out their lives in accordance with their faith… [The Green’s bill] would touch on areas including congregational services that include sermons, day-schools for children and new converts, and even the training of youth and community workers.

Original Source: Date-stamped: 2018 NOV 23, | Author: Caldron Pool | Article Title: Christianity outlawed? The Greens push to have religious freedom drastically reduced. | Article Link: caldronpool.com
Share

A Call to Anguish

A Call to Anguish by David Wilkerson

Nehemiah 1:1-10

David Wilkerson Born 19 May 1931 and Died 27 April 2011

David Wilkerson speaks about the perversion in the world and the sinfulness of the church. He points out how the church today is married to the world. People are seeking places where smooth messages are being preached. Christians no longer want to hear about God’s coming wrath and the necessary correction of their lives. This broken and God-fearing man denounces the passivity of God’s people. Christians are blind to the lukewarmness and the sinful mixture that has crept in little by little. He warns how the spirit of blindness is the least recognizable thing.

“You have lost your fight. That’s all the devil wants to do is get the fight out of you and kill it. So you won’t labour in prayer anymore, you won’t weep before God anymore. You can sit and watch television and your family goes to hell. If you are expecting somebody else to win your family or to do this work you are mistaken.”

David Wilkerson he calls believers to leave their passivity. Nehemiah 1:1-10

Through this very deep, challenging and anointed message, God calls believers to a baptism of anguish and to fervently pray for the recovery of a nation.

Share

Australia: Subway a “Political” OUTLET (Pro Yes Vote Sales Dockets) Marriage Equity “NO” Voters time VOTE “NO” A SECOND TIME

A Disgraceful Response, franchisee do what they are told to do, Subway is misleading the public.

Subway should not ever be a political voice it is a food outlet.

An Outlet whose clientele will have extensive numbers of voters voting:

“NO” and 

 


Over in Australia, the marriage equality debate is hitting fever pitch.

With the country set to vote on equal marriage rights in the coming weeks, messages encouraging people to vote ‘yes’ to marriage equality are popping up all over the place. In one area in Melbourne, even your Meatball Marinara comes with a message.

A Subway franchise in the city’s Cranbourne Park Shopping Centre has been printing pro-equality messages on its receipts, encouraging all its customers to vote ‘yes’ in the upcoming postal vote.

‘We believe in EQUALITY for ALL Australians,’ the message reads. ‘What about you? Vote “YES” in the Postal Survey. Do it because it’s the right thing to do.’

One sandwich lover posted her receipt on Twitter with glee, writing: ‘Found on @subwayaustralia receipt by Steve King, Melbourne. Thank you, Subway!’


The real credit for this project is goes to the franchisee, Steve King.

Steve’s team have been really ramping up the pro-equality message in their store in recent weeks, handing out pamphlets and badges to customers to encourage both voter registration and a ‘yes’ vote.

In addition, the in-store screens have been used to promote a number of posters from Australian Marriage Equality’s ‘Yes’ campaign, replacing the usual messages of new sandwiches or combo deals. Definitely a better use of electricity.

In a statement, Subway Australia says:

‘Each franchisee is a small business owner in their local community with their own personal views and beliefs. At Subway respect for every individual is a core value. We are committed to treating every person with honour, dignity and respect — regardless of their beliefs, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender.’


Date-stamped: 8 Sep 2017 | Time-stamped: 12:16 pm | Author: Tom Connick for metro.co.uk | Article Title: Subway store prints pro-marriage equality message on its receipts | Article Link: metro.co.uk 

A suggestion for (Marriage Equity “NO” Voters):

VOTE “NO” A SECOND TIME

Take your feet to another Food outlet one that has had the sense to stay out of the political arena of a massive social issue within Australia connected to morality and Right and Wrong!

Share

So its Christmas whats the big Deal

There is More feature

geg-150-150By Rev. Gary Green

4cminews.com 07 Dec 2016

Well What is CHRISTMAS

Secular sources offers this Definition

Christmasˈkrɪsməs/ noun
1. the annual Christian festival celebrating Christ’s birth, held on 25 December in the Western Church.
synonyms: Xmas, Noel; Burra Din; informal: Chrimbo, Chrissie; archaic: Yule, Yuletide

Wikipedia says

Christmas or Christmas Day is an annual festival commemorating the birth of Jesus Christ, observed most commonly on December 25 as a religious and cultural celebration among billions of people around the world.

Dummies.com says

You probably know that Christmas is celebrated on December 25. In the Western World, families distribute gifts that Santa Claus left under the Christmas tree on Christmas morning. Many attend church services on Christmas Eve and Christmas morning, and later gather for Christmas dinner with extended family.
 

Christmas is the observance of Jesus’ humble birth to a virgin in a stable in Bethlehem. The holiday also celebrates the events surrounding his birth, such as an angel’s appearance to shepherds, telling them to visit the newborn king.
 

Although the Church doesn’t consider it the most important Christian holiday, Christmas is certainly the most popular, at least in terms of cultural and social significance.

What did the Apostles of the new testament Say about “This Jesus & His Birth”

Firstly we can look to the Apostle Johns letters in particular 1 John Chapter 3 the things we know about this letter is that we are certain about the intended readers based on the content of the letter itself is that (i) they were Christians, (ii) they appear to have been well-known to the author (and he to them), and (ii) they were facing a threat from false teaching, a threat which was both serious and which appears to have arisen from within their Christian community.1) 1 John 2:18-19  ie. The first epistle indicates that the readers were confronted with the error of Gnosticism2)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism. And  the locale in which Johns letters were written leads scholars to conclude that the best and earliest evidence points to Ephesus. The Book of 1 John was likely written between A.D. 85-95.

The Apostle John leads in with this Statement found in 1 John 1 vs.1 – vs.4 which is a core foundation he builds upon

1 John 1 (ESV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.

In the epistle 1 John chapter 3 we find the Apostle John states a foundational doctrinal truth which is core to Christianity and directly clarifies why the Birth of Jesus on Earth.

1 John 3 (ESV)

1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

 ESV vs.5 and (TLB) vs.5

you know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. or as the TLB puts it

And you know that he became a man so that he could take away our sins, and that there is no sin in him

 ESV vs.8

… The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

The Apostle John is writing from Ephesus to the believers and states clearly the purpose for the Birth Life and Death of Jesus the Christ Gods only Son.

This was no ordinary event; this was no random event of chance! No it had specific purpose and intent formed in the heart of God the Creator of Heaven and Earth which could only be achieved by His only Son Jesus the Christ.

In today’s vernacular; the most Historic Earth Changer, Heavens Shattering, SIN Destroying Event which not even Lucifer himself understood, was all formed in the heart of God with the Son before the foundations of this world had became a reality.

This intervention this visitation by God and His Son was aimed at one thing and one thing only and the Apostles and Prophets declared it!

“To Destroy the Power, The Dominion and Control of Mans State of SIN; that came through the fall of Adam.

From that day Adam fell all flesh was born in SIN; Born under Domination, Born with a SIN Debt he could never pay; Born with a SIN Nature he in himself could never Dominate but rather would be dominated by.

What could be describe as “Mans Dilemma” which could only be resolved by God. A SOLUTION that ONLY GOD could provide which was through his Only Son Jesus who by the way of the Cross obtained and offer to men.

The Birth of Jesus

Is about SIN and God’s answer to the “Dilemma” Mankind could never resolve

Gnosticism states Matter ie (Flesh) is Evil and Spirit is Good therefore God did not come as a man in flesh and die a physical death. Thereby voiding the shedding of blood for forgiveness of sins which is the payment God made for Mans redemption of his SIN Debt to God. The Apostle John refutes this and say’s “Jesus was Born physically as a child in Flesh and was Gods Son”.  We could say… Gods reasons for coming to earth in human fleshly form of man wasn’t because of a whim or fancy to mingle with men, no it was motivated by a love for mankind and compassion and kindness not found in the hearts of men naturally.

The writer of Hebrews in chapter 9 vs 28 say’s “Christ died only once”. So why did He die? and whats that got to do with Christmas?

Well!

What was the prime purpose of Jesus being born in the Flesh (100% man), 1 Jn 3:5 ESV. say’s He came “To Take Away our Sins” and in Hebrews chapter 9 vs 28 is say’s “so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many,… ” But it did not stop there! vs.28 continues to say “so Christ,… “will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him”.

Hebrews chapter 9 says Jesus is coming a second time and it has nothing to do with Sins!

One needs to ask Why?

I believe Jesus himself explained it clearly with his last words spoken on the cross! and has been recorded in the gospels for all mankind to know. “IT IS FINISHED”

What is finished?

The Sin Problem!

The Sin Problem was and is No Longer a problem as far as God is Concerned.

Gods Solution had now been fully completed and was now established forever for mankind,

Remember… “he appeared in order to take away sins…

Remember…”… The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

God’s Son Jesus is Coming a Second Time

And this time He comes to Earth for an entirely different purpose!

 “To Save Those Who Are Eagerly Waiting for Him’ (Hebrews 9 vs.28)

The question needs to be asked! “Now that sins have been dealt with! What is God through His son going to Save His People From?”

The books of Matthew3)Matthew 24:3-31, Thessalonians4)1 Thessalonians chapters 4-5 and 2 Thessalonians chapters 2-3 and Revelations  speaks about this time coming it is refereed to by many as the 70th Week of Daniel’s Prophecy.5)DANIEL 9:27

And according to the writer of the books Jesus is Coming to a time like nothing Mankind has ever seen before, a time where the Demonic world makes an open play for Domination and Satan attempts to once again declare himself as God and in Pride places himself on a throne in the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem declaring himself as God, demanding all to bow down and worship him and will require all to take a mark that signifies their submission and homage of him as God, this single act by mankind will immediately determine their eternal doom and Just condemnation by God.

This 70th week (a 7 year period) is marked with great tribulations to those who are God’s people, Jews and Christians alike come under intense persecution from Man on Man, Daniel says this period will last 3.5 years, which brings mankind to a tipping point where the Antichrist plays his hand for Domination and control, fooling even the elite with his guile.

What follows is something no one should ever want to see or endure in their right mind, it is the Wrath of God Poured Out on Mankind on Earth, Judgments so terrifying it should cause all who hear of its coming want to do whatever God says must be done to escape this.

This is what Jesus is coming back for! Its been called the “Rapture”, the “Departure”, the “Resurrection” of the Dead in Christ and the Living. The writer of the book of Hebrews clearly states Jesus second coming was and will be to “SAVE” His people waiting for Him.

Christmas is About:

The Power of SIN and the SIN Nature that has Dominated Mankind Since Adams Fall being Dealt with by God once and for all, it is also about a time yet to come where God Saves people from a time like no other where the full cup of God’s Wrath and Judgments a meted out on a defiant mankind.

Johns Gospel says it well. John Chapter 1 vs 29

Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World” we should bare in mind that Jesus had not died on the cross at this point and the John the Baptist sees Jesus and makes this proclamation.

The Angels declared the purpose of the Birth of Jesus before He was even born. Apostle Matthew writes in chapter 1 vs 21 ” the Angel said to Joseph, son of David fear not take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit, She will bare a son and you shall call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their Sins”

Apostle Luke’s account of the shepherds in the field is illuminating vs.10 chapter 2. “The Angel said fear not behold I bring you Good News of great Joy that will be for all people, vs. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a saviour who is Christ “the anointed one” the Lord “God”

The Angels Declared the purpose of His Birth it was: “SALVATION FROM SIN AND JUDGMENTS”

Isaiah chapter 7 vs 14 says ” He shall be called Immanuel “God is with Us” we must remember this was recorded from Oral History in the book of Isaiah around 701-681 BC with that in mind We now read Isaiah chapter 9 vs 6 which says

For unto to us a child is born

Isaiah 9:6

to us a son is given

and the government shall be upon his shoulder 

and his name shall be called

wonderful counsellor, Mighty God

Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah proclaims yet another time to come which can be biblically tied to the 1000 years of peace what is called The Millennium, spoken of in the New Testament, We have a prophet during a period before 701-681 BC declaring events to a child yet to be born “Jesus” concerning a world changing event to happen. we are now in 2016 means approx. 3000 yrs have past and this event is yet to happen. I can confidently say it will happen, why because this child was born, that is what Christmas is about!

The Nativity Story is far more then a stable, a baby and animals we celebrate an event which altered the destiny on mankind and saved them from doom and eternal damnation. Most today do not understand this or consider it part of what is Called Christmas in the Secular sense, for a vast majority its a public holiday time for presents and endulgements of excess.

Christmas is not a Jewish holiday.6)http://www.jewfaq.org/xmas.htm Yet according to the prophet Zachariah in chapter 12 vs 10 there is coming a day when they will finally recognise Gods Only Son this child Born of a Virgin, Named Jesus who came to take away their SIN. “Take away the Sins of many people”

10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Zachariah 12:10

Yes a time is coming when the Nation of Israel will understand and acknowledge Jesus Born of Mary Gods Only Son the Child who came in humility and suffered the cross for their SIN to save them from Sin and Death (Eternal Separation From God), this event for Israel will not come without a price; as at this time spoken of in Zachariah 2 thirds of Israel will have been killed and in desperation those who are left cry out to God and God sends His Son a third time to save them from total destruction, Salvation is always on Gods Mind.

WHAT IS ON OUR MIND?

We today have an incredible opportunity before us as we enter the 2016 Christmas festive period. We have the freedom and opportunity to embrace God and His Son and What He came for and did for us some (approx.) 2000 years ago.

Will we openly acknowledge without reservation God sent His Son Born of a Virgin and His name was called Jesus and He came for a specific purpose “to save us from the Power of SIN and the Domination of the SIN Nature that holds every-man not born of God Captive.

Whatever has happened during 2016 in our live is behind us what matters is what are we going to do with the truth about Jesus the Son of God.

He came born as a child He lived as a man and His name was called Jesus 100% Man yet 100% “God is With Us!” non can deny the facts historical evidence demands that acknowledgement, what God seeks is the Heart of a Man or Women Boy or Girl who will embrace for themselves the very purpose His Son Jesus came for, that He came to save them from their SIN and to destroy the power of SIN over them. And we who are alive may see Him come again to save us from a time that’s yet to come.

In conclusion I would ask you to once and for all will you Surrender your Life to God and Let Him Save you from the power of, and domination of and control of “SIN”, which only produces “Death”, ie. separation from God now and for Eternity

The Bible says only a fool says in their heart “there is No God” Psalm 14 vs.1, I would say only a fool would say they have No Sin or a Sin Debt to God and the Apostle John says that person is deceived 1 John 1 vs.8-vs.10

The Birth of Jesus was the prime act of Gods Plan to Redeem (pay out) our Sin Debt to God on our behalf because we could never by our own efforts pay that Debt!

Yes we actually have something to Celebrate at Christmas and its not Santa and Present or Holidays!

TODAY HIT LIFE’S PAUSE BUTTON.

Replay the Christmas Story God’s Way: His Son came to dwell amongst man to Save men from “SIN” and then I invite you to embrace in its absolute fullness the One Purpose He came for.

Below is a prayer Ive written I would encourage you to find a quiet place and pray this prayer with utter sincerity and resolve to let it be the reality and truth of your life today.

GOD WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN
knockFather in Heaven, I come to you in Jesus name.

I believe Jesus Christ is your son and that Jesus came and lived as man, and he was crucified on the cross for my sins.

I believe Jesus was raised from the dead on the third day and is seated at the right hand of God in Heaven, as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Today I ask that Jesus, your son, would come and dwell in my heart by the Holy Spirit, and I surrender my whole life, my will and desires to Jesus Christ and make him my Lord and King.

Today I choose to give you, almighty God, complete control of my life.

Fill me with your Holy Spirit, forgive me for my sins, and give me your power and ability now to live a life that honors you and brings others to know you. I thank you for this new life I now Have.

I ask this in the name of Jesus Christ Amen.

Write to us and tell us if you have taken this step Today “Contact Us

Share

References   [ + ]

1. 1 John 2:18-19
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
3. Matthew 24:3-31
4. 1 Thessalonians chapters 4-5 and 2 Thessalonians chapters 2-3
5. DANIEL 9:27
6. http://www.jewfaq.org/xmas.htm

17 Nov. Why is there such a problem with the concept God uses the forces of Nature to chastise and Judge in this World

Profile: GEG 4CM 2ic feature

17 Nov. As I read the fury of editorials in New Zealand directed at Rev. Brian Tamaki which have burst in the media of New Zealand concerning the Earthquakes and Judgments of God to Nations Im compelled to present a further rebuttal to Mr. Tamaki’s dissenters and their critiques & criticisms: also see my first response 16 Nov. Titled: “Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

What saddens me most is the deafening silence from Christians… in New Zealand and beyond. Why are they afraid to voice the truth of Gods word concerning how God does deal with Nations from a biblical perspective.

Being Holders of the Truth yet not willing to be a Sound on the Wall warning the Nation of consequences when a nation abandons that which is right before God. Has consequences too!


Stating the obvious:

Prime Key: GOD creator of Heaven and Earth whose son is Jesus the Christ is GOD and Heads-up we are NOT GOD or a god!

“Oh what is mere man that you oh are mindful of him.”

Psalm 144:3 ESV

Psalm 8:4-8 NKJV

paraphrased view Rev. Gary

geggeg2ic-150sqCommentary: It amazes me the evidence of how many people struggle to accept or believe God creator of Heaven and Earth can, would and does use the elements to bring correction or judgement.

Well let put the obvious up the first Historical record; the preserved narrative of “the Great Deluge” The Flood” Noah’s Ark,  The best known of the flood accounts is, firstly, the biblical account in Genesis, and secondly, the one found in the Gilgamesh Epic. 1)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Flood_accounts


What Flood? There is a Wealth of Deluge Legends

Mesopotamia

Tablets excavated from Iraq recount the myths of ancient Mesopotamia. They speak of a vanished culture in Sumer and of a king called Gilgamesh. He was renowned for his great wisdom and knowledge. Gilgamesh related the story of a worldwide flood. This was told to him by Utnapishtim, a king of a pre-flood civilisation and a survivor of the catastrophe.

The story relates that Ea, lord of the waters and man’s guardian, warned Utnapishtim of the deluge by which the gods planned to exterminate mankind. Ea told Utnapishtim to “tear down your house and build a boat” and to “take up into the boat the seed of all living creatures. … [E]ach side of the deck measured one hundred and twenty cubits, making a square”. There were seven decks in all. The flood itself was frightening and full of fury. Utnapishtim recounted that ‘the god of the storm turned daylight to darkness, when he smashed the land like a cup’. Once the tempest had subsided, Utnapishtim ‘looked at the face of the world and there was silence, all mankind was returned to clay. The surface of the sea stretched flat as a rooftop … on every side was the waste of water’. Utnapishtim loosed a dove who returned finding no resting place, and then a swallow with the same result. Finally, a loosed raven did not return. The boat came to ground on a mountaintop and Utnapishtim offered a sacrifice.2)Sanders, N.K., The Epic of Gilgamesh, Penguin Classics, London, UK, pp. 108-113, 1972

North American Indians

The North American Indians have several flood stories. One from the Choctaw tribe tells how, long ago, men became so corrupt that the Great Spirit destroyed them in a flood. Only one man was saved—a prophet whose warnings the people disregarded, and whom the Great Spirit then directed to build a raft from sassafras logs. After many weeks, a small bird guided the prophet to an island where the Great Spirit changed the bird into a beautiful woman who became the wife of the prophet. Their children then repopulated the world.*3)Morrison, W.B., Ancient Choctaw Legend of the Great Flood, www.isd.net/mboucher/choctaw/flood1.htm , September 8, 2000. *4)http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145 Nov, 2016

Australian Aboriginal flood stories

Likewise, there are several Australian Aboriginal flood stories. One tells how, long ago, there was a flood that covered the mountains so that many of the Nurrumbunguttias, or spirit men and women, were drowned. Others, including Pund-jil, were caught up by a whirlwind into the sky. When the waters receded, and the mountains appeared again, and the sea went back into its own place, the son and daughter of Pund-jil ‘went back to earth and became the first of the true men and women who live in the world today’.5)Reed, A.W., ‘The Great Flood’, in Aboriginal Fables And Legendary Tales, Reed Books, Sydney, Australia, pp. 55-56, 1965.

One of the more striking Flood accounts, summarized here.

Australian Aboriginals relate legend of world-destroying flood was discovered by anthropologists among a remote Aboriginal tribe in Western Australia, before any contact with missionaries.

“It came about that the earliest-time children tormented and ill-treated the Winking Owl, Dumbi. Ngadja, the Supreme One, was inwardly grieved and felt deep sorrow for him. He instructed Gajara, ‘If you want to live, take your wife, your sons and your sons’ wives and get a double raft. Because of the Dumbi affair, I intend to drown everyone. I am about to send rain and a sea flood,’ he told them. ‘Put on the raft long-lasting foods that may be stored, foods such as gumi, banimba, and ngalindaja, all these ground foods.’

“So Gajara stored all these foods. He also gathered birds of the air such as the cuckoo, the mistletoe-eater, the rainbow bird, the helmeted friar bird and finches; these he took on the raft, and also a female kangaroo. Gajara gathered his sons as the crew, and his own wife and his sons’ wives together.

“Then Ngadja sent the rainclouds down, shutting the clouds in upon them. The sea-flood came in from the north-north-east and the people were closed in by the salt-water flood and the tidal waters of the sea. Ngadja whirled the flood waters and the earth opened, drowning and flattening them all. He finished them at Dumbey. Meanwhile, the flood carried all those who were on the raft with Gajara along on the current far away to Dulugun.

“At last, the floodwaters brought Gajara back in this direction. He sent some birds out from the raft, first the cuckoo. The cuckoo found the land and did not return to him. Gradually the waters were going down. Later on, the other birds returned to Gajara and he sent them out again the following day. The land was already drying the waters up and the living creatures found a home and food. They killed a kangaroo after landing, and Gajara’s wife, Galgalbiri, put it in the earth oven and cooked it with other foods. The smoke rose slowly until it reached through into the sky. Ngadja, the Supreme Being, could smell the steam and smoke rising from the female kangaroo as it was cooking and he was pleased.

“Ngadja, the Supreme Being, put the rainbow in the sky to keep the rain-clouds back. The rainbow protects us so that the rainfall does not rise too high. Our people understand the significance of it. When we see the rainbow we say, ‘There will not be any abnormally heavy rain.’.”6)For full version see: Coates, H., The Flood, Creation 4(3):9-12, 1981.  

Ancient Chinese

Early Jesuit scholars were the first Europeans to gain access to the Chinese ‘book of all knowledge’ from ancient times. This 4,320-volume collection told of the repercussions of mankind’s rebellion against the gods: “The Earth was shaken to its foundations. The sky sank lower towards the north. The sun, moon, and stars changed their motions. The Earth fell to pieces and the waters in its bosom rushed upwards with violence and overflowed the Earth.”7)Berlitz, C., The Lost Ship of Noah, W.H. Allen, London, UK, p. 126, 1987.

Another story, in the folklore of the Bahnars, a primitive tribe of Cochin, China, tells of how the rivers swelled “till the waters reached the sky, and all living beings perished except two, a brother and a sister, who were saved in a huge chest. They took with them into the chest a pair of every sort of animal …”.8)p. 82 Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.

Egypt

Flood stories from the continent of Africa are rare, but one from Egypt tells of an ancient creation god, Tem, who “was responsible for the primeval flood, which covered the entire earth and destroyed all of mankind except those in Tem’s boat”.9)Mercatante, A.S., Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, Child & Associates Publishing, NSW, Australia, p. 613, 1988.

Peru

The Incas of Peru also had a tradition of a deluge. “They said that the water rose above the highest mountains in the world, so that all people and all created things perished. No living thing escaped except a man and a woman, who floated in a box on the face of the waters and so were saved.”10)pp. 105-106.  Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.

Scandinavia

The stories of the Teutonic tribes of Scandinavia are vivid and describe terrifying events. The imagery of these legends emphasizes the size of the cataclysm. One such tale portrays the chaos of the world when the mighty wolf Fenrir shook himself and “made the whole world tremble. The aged ash tree Yggdrasil [envisaged as the axis of the earth] was shaken from its roots to its topmost branches. Mountains crumbled or split from top to bottom … ”. Men “were driven from their hearths and the human race was swept from the surface of the earth. The earth itself was beginning to lose its shape. Already the stars were coming adrift from the sky and falling into the gaping void. … Flames spurted from fissures in the rocks; everywhere there was the hissing of steam. All living things, all plant life, were blotted out. … And now all the rivers, all the seas rose and overflowed. From every side waves lashed against waves. They swelled and boiled and slowly covered all things. The earth sank beneath the sea …”. Then slowly “the earth emerged from the waves. Mountains rose anew … . Men also reappeared. … Enclosed in the wood itself of the ash tree Yggdrasil … the ancestors of a future race of men had escaped death.”11)The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Chancellor Press, London, UK, pp. 275-277, 1996.

Uncanny coherence to Noah’s account

There are at least 500 legends of a worldwide deluge.

Many of these show remarkable similarities, with many aspects similar to the details about Noah’s Flood in the Bible.

We are left with a few options. Perhaps all the peoples of these remote civilisations had different flood experiences that, by chance, had all these features in common, on which they based their stories. However, the more reasonable alternative is that these legends all find their root in the same one global Flood experience that Genesis records.

So why do sceptics reject the story today? The Bible says that people willingly close their minds about the Flood: “For this is hidden from them by their willing it, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of the water, and through water, being held together by the word of God, through which the world that then was, being flooded by water, perished (2 Peter 3:5-6 ESV).

The Bible also proclaims that this world is being reserved for another cataclysm: “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up (2 Peter 3:10 ESV).

All too often we rest in the surety of yet another benevolent sunrise. We rely too smugly upon the delicate balance that makes life on our planet possible. The ancient prophecies and legends, corruptions though they are of the original true account, help to remind us of our vulnerability before God. We should humbly bow the knee and get in step with His purposes. They are the only purposes that really count.

Here is what I like to describe as: A BOTTOM LINE

Deluge or Flood’: “A world cataclysm during which the earth was inundated or submerged by water: a concept found in almost every mythology in the world. The exceptions are Egypt and Japan …”

Funk and Wagnall’s 1950 Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend

COMMON THEMES IN FLOOD ACCOUNTS:

There are parallel themes going through most of the accounts of the Great Flood. Here are some of them.

Cause12)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Cause

Many of the accounts say that the flood was caused by God or some equivalent being. In Genesis, it was Yahweh.13)Genesis 6:3 In the Gilgamesh Epic, it was the council of the gods.14)Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic by Jonathan Sarfati, Creation, vol. 28 No. 4 pp.12-17 In the Bundaba (Australian aboriginal) flood story, it was Ngowungu, the Great Father.15)Australian Aboriginal Flood Stories, Creation Vol. 5 No. 1, pp. 6-9. The Greeks recorded it as being Zeus.16)Greek, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.

Purpose17)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Purpose

When the cause of the flood is attributed to a god, the reason is frequently said to be for mankind’s wickedness. Genesis adds that “every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time”.18)Genesis 6:5 NIV The Miao account from China says, in verse, “These did not God’s will nor returned His affection. / But fought with each other defying the Godhead. / Their leaders shook fists in the face of the Mighty.”19)Genesis According to the Miao People, by Edgar A. Truax, Impact, April 1991 A Navajo account says that it was because of “their sins of adultery and constant quarreling”.20)Navajo (Four Corners area), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak

What saved the people21)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#What_saved_the_people

People were generally saved either by floating out the flood, or fleeing to the top of a mountain. In the former case, the vessel took a variety of forms. A Hopi Indian story has them surviving in the hollow stems of giant reeds22)Hopi, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. The Greek story has them surviving in a chest.23)Greek, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. In Genesis, Noah was instructed by God to build an ark to dimensions and other specifications included in the account.

Who was saved?24)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Who_was_saved.3F

The survivors were often a single family. An Australian aboriginal account has Ngadgja, the Supreme One, telling Gajara to take his wife, his sons, and his sons’ wives.25)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12 The Masai account from East Africa has Tumbainot taking his two wives, his six sons, and their wives.26)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. A Hawaiian story has Nuu taking his wife and three sons.27)Hawaii, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. Noah took his wife, his three sons, and their wives.28)Genesis 7:13

Birds sent out29)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Birds_sent_out

Genesis describes Noah sending out birds to see if there was yet dry land.30)Genesis 8:6-12 Initially this was unsuccessful, but a subsequent attempt was successful when a dove didn’t return. In the Hopi account also, they unsuccessfully sent out birds to find land.31)Hopi, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. An Australian aboriginal account has a cuckoo not returning because it found land.32)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12 The Masai account has Tumbainot sending out a dove, which returned because it had no place to rest.33)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak

A rainbow34)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#A_rainbow

The Masai account has four rainbows signifying that God’s wrath was over.35)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak A Hawaiian account has the god Kane leaving a rainbow as a perpetual sign of his forgiveness.36)Hawaii, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. From an Australian aboriginal story comes this account: Ngadja, the Supreme Being, put the rainbow in the sky to keep the rain-clouds back. The rainbow lies bent across the sky; he ties up the clouds behind it and the rain does not come. The rainbow keeps the clouds back and protects us so that the rainfall does not rise too high. Our people understand the significance of it. When we see the rainbow we say, ‘There will not be any abnormally heavy rain.’37)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12
Genesis says that the rainbow would be a reminder that God would never again destroy the world with a flood. Genesis 9:12-17 ESV

Other ancient references38)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Other_ancient_references

The Great Flood has left a variety of traditions in many cultures world-wide. In most of them, the stories involve a few survivors and a number of animals in a boat or on a raft; the search for dry land involving a bird; a landing on a mountain, and a sacrifice to the gods after the flood was over.

EUROPEAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Greece Deucalion and Pyrrha were warned by Prometheus about the flood and told to build a chest; they survived when the chest landed on a high mountain.39)Apollodorus, The Library, book 1 Deucalion Mt. Parnassus Yes
ASIAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Babylonia Epic of Gilgamesh; The god Ea warned Utnapishtim of the imminent destruction of the earth; the ark built was cube-shaped, and held his family, friends, and all animals Utnapishtim Mt. Nisir 8 Yes; a raven and dove were used to search for dry land as well
Assyria King Ashurbanipal, who lived in the seventh century B.C., recorded, “I have read intricate tablets inscribed with obscure Sumerian or Akkadian…inscriptions on stone from before the Flood.” Utnapishtim; possibly used the same Gilgamesh tales of Babylonia Mt. Nisir 8 Yes
Chaldean Xisuthrus was warned of a coming flood by the god Chronos, who ordered him to build a boat in which to carry family, friends, and two of every kind of animal.40)Eusebius, Chronicle, book 1 Xisuthrus 8 Yes; birds were used to find land.
China Hihking; The Chinese classic record details one family survived a great flood by gathering their sons and sons’ wives together in a large boat, whereupon they repopulated the earth afterwards. Fuhi 8 Yes
Sumeria Eridu Genesis: the god Enki warns Ziudsura to build a large boat due to the coming destruction of the earth. After a flood lasting seven days, Ziudsura sacrifices to the gods. Ziudsura translation lost translation lost
AUSTRALIAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
OCEANIC ISLANDERS TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Hawaiian A man built a boat to escape a great flood. He landed his vessel on top of Mauna Kea on the Big Island. The man accidentally attributed the cause of his safety to the moon god, and made sacrifices to the wrong god. Kane, the actual creator god descended to the man from a rainbow telling him of his error.*41)http://www.enotes.com/wm-encyclopedia/nuu*42)“Nu’u” A Dictionary of World Mythology. Arthur Cotterell. Oxford University Press, 1997. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. 30 September 2010 http://www.oxfordreference.com/views/ENTRY.html?subview=Main&entry=t73.e525*43)http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/flood-legends*44)http://www.answers.com/topic/nu-u*45)https://www.amazon.com/Hawaiian-Mythology-Martha-Warren-Beckwith/dp/0559118627 Nu’u Mauna Kea Unknown Unknown
AFRICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
NORTH AMERICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Chippewa A war between Nanabozho and the Great Serpent who lived at the bottom of Lake Superior; the serpent, being wounded in the fight, vowed to destroy the tribe by a flood. The tribe quickly built rafts, gathered their animals, and escaped to the highest mountains, which were quickly covered over except the one on which stood Nanabozho46)http://www.indians.org/welker/greatflo.htm Nanabozho unknown unknown Yes
Choctaw The Great Spirit destroyed a corrupt and wicked human race and all life on earth, except a prophet who went in vain to warn the people to repent or die. The prophet survived by building a raft of sassafras logs.47)http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145 known only as the prophet. unknown unknown Yes; the bird which led him to land he named “Puchi Yushuba” (lost pigeon)
SOUTH AMERICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Tamanakis (Carib tribe, Orinoco River basin) A man and woman escaped to the highest peak after being warned of a flood. Afterward, the tossed coconuts behind them, which became the next race of man. Mt Tapanacu

A SECOND LOOK AT “THE FLOOD”

Genesis Flood account48)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology

Genesis provides the most detailed account of the global deluge, including specific dates, measurements, and even some key geological events during the flood. Consequently, flood geologists use it as a starting point for understanding the events of the deluge. Based on the Genesis account, flood geologists argue that the flood resulted from subterranean water erupting to the surface (“the springs of the great deep burst forth”.49)Genesis 7:11 NIV.), combined with 40 days and nights of rain. Although the rain stopped after 40 days, the flood waters continued to rise for 150 days, and lasted just over a year before Noah and the others on the boat were able to leave. During the flood, there was massive tectonic activity, including some land rising up and other land dropping, such that the waters ended up in newly deepened oceans. All the animals and birds (except those on the ark), and large numbers of sea creatures perished, and many of them were buried so quickly that they became fossils, accounting for the vast majority of fossils existing today.

Flood geologists base their belief in a relatively recent global deluge on several strands of evidence. While none of these strands alone is sufficient to prove that a global flood occurred, flood geologists argue that a global deluge is the most reasonable and parsimonious explanation for the evidence.

Sedimentary rock50)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sedimentary_rock

Sedimentary rocks are formed by sand and other sediments which settle out of suspension in water, minerals which dissolve in water (which sand cannot do).51)http://pearsonkt.com/summaryStreetOT/texts/Sci-National-Grade-4/iText/products/0-328-34278-5/unitc/ch11/331.html. and the hard parts of small aquatic organisms such as plankton, which accumulate on the bottom of a body of water and undergo lithification. Although only about 8% of the earth’s rocks are sedimentary, 75%-80% of the Earth’s land area is covered in sedimentary rock..52)http://www.icr.org/article/570/. Therefore, geologists point out, there is irrefutable evidence that at least 75% of the Earth’s land was once covered in water.

Sufficient water53)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sufficient_water

There is enough water on Earth today to cover the entire surface to a depth of 2.7 kilometres (1.7 miles), if the surface was levelled out..54)Noah’s Flood—what about all that water?, Chapter 4 of the Creation Answers Book, Dr. Don Batten (Ed.). Continents emerge because the average ocean depth is 3.7 km..55)http://www.mos.org/oceans/planet/features.html. Flood geologists argue that geological activity during and after the flood lowered the ocean basins, causing water to flow from the continents into the basins, and leaving dry land..56)Psalms 104:6-9 (NASB) “You covered it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains. At Your rebuke they fled, At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away. The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass over, So that they will not return to cover the earth.”.

Fossils57)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossils

Fossilization requires rapid burial in a sedimentary solution, and subsequent rapid lithification of the solution. Slow burial does not result in fossilization, because the remains decay prior to being fossilized. Therefore, every fossil was buried in rapidly deposited sedimentary material which subsequently turned to stone.

Fossil fuels58)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossil_fuels

Fossil fuel formation requires the burial of enormous amounts of organic matter under a sedimentary solution, and the application of heat and pressure. Slow burial processes do not produce fossil fuels, because the organic matter decays prior to conversion into a fossil fuel. Therefore, all fossil fuels on earth were quickly buried under sedimentary material which subsequently turned to stone;

Similar processes have been observed in Spirit Lake following the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980.

Rock strata59)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Rock_strata

Most sedimentary rocks are layered, forming sharply defined lines at varying depths. Were these formed over long periods, erosion would have softened these lines. The sharpness of the lines implies rapid deposition and lithification.

Pure sedimentary layers60)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Pure_sedimentary_layers

If sedimentary layers were laid down over millennia, they would have experienced mixing. However, many rock strata are pure—for example, the St. Peter Sandstone, covering 500,000 sq miles of the United States, is 99.94% pure silica. While uniformitarian scientists state that it was deposited by the shore of a sea, they cannot explain how it remained so pure if it was laid out over a long period of time. However, the sorting processes of liquefaction, consistent with a global flood, can make such an explanation.

Submarine canyons61)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Submarine_canyons

Canyons can be found under the sea at the end of many major world rivers, including the Congo, Amazon, Ganges, and Hudson. They extend for thousands of miles underwater, thousands of feet under the sea; they are as deep as the Grand Canyon in places, and although not well understood by the mainstream scientific community, they are generally understood to have developed when sea-levels were significantly lower than today. Flood geologists argue that as the continents divided and the flood subsided, these major rivers drained the new continents, and the water flowed into the new low-lying areas, which would fill to become seas, leaving the sediments to dry out of their liquefied state.

Land canyons62)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Land_canyons

As explanation for great land canyons such as the Grand Canyon, flood geologists point to canyon formation events such as the catastrophic hot mud slides observed during the eruption of Mt. St. Helens. One particular hot mud slide at Mt. St. Helens carved a canyon 140 ft. deep and 17 miles long in a single day. Only a thin creek remains at the bottom of the canyon today, which would likely be interpreted as having carved the canyon “over millions of years,” if it were not known first-hand that the canyon was carved in a single day.

Ancient accounts of a navigable Atlantic63)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Ancient_accounts_of_a_navigable_Atlantic

Plato’s Timaeus states:

“In those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles [Straight of Gibraltar] … and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.”.64)http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html.

Plate tectonics65)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Plate_tectonics

A clear problem with a global flood is that of repopulation: after the flood, very few non-marine species would survive. In particular, most of those observed today could not possibly have survived – this includes all insects, the vast majority of birds (Some species of albatross may have survived), the vast majority of mammals, and possibly freshwater fish depending on the salinity of the floodwaters.

Flood geology models include a means for these species to survive, most typically via artificial assistance – an Ark, as described in Genesis.

An often-proposed explanation is that of continental drift – that the continents may once have been united in a single supercontinent, which broke into fragments and drifted into the formations seen today during the time between the start of repopulation and today. Continental drift in principle is nearly universally accepted by all geologists, with flood geology differing only in time: While conventional geology estimates the breakup of the supercontinent to have occurred over approximately sixty million years, flood geologists mostly claim that the process occurred during the flood year, whilst a few claim that it occurred at the time of Peleg.

Flood geologists propose several models which would explain how continental drift could proceed at the rapid pace required to allow the rearrangement of continents during or shortly after the flood, then slow to the currently observed rate. One of the best known of these is the runaway subduction model of Dr. John Baumgardner..66)http://www.globalflood.org/platetec/about.html.

Total destruction67)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Total_destruction

Flood geologists argue that the scale of destruction of the Flood, especially if rapid plate tectonics was involved, would mean almost certain total destruction of the pre-Flood world, including any evidence of civilisations predating the Flood, along with the destruction of the Garden of Eden. After the Flood, and particularly after the Tower of Babel, new civilisations developed, that either survive to this day or that we find archaeological evidence of today.

Dating68)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Dating

Flood geologists date the flood to around 2350 B.C., based on biblical chronology. They argue that archaeological dates which purport to show civilisations and artifacts being older than the Flood (see Criticisms) are incorrect because they are based on the presumption that none of these methods would be altered by the effects of a global flood in such a way as to render conclusions drawn from them invalid..69)One example is Carbon Dating which is calibrated according to known background levels of C14 in the atmosphere, but this calibration does not account for likely altered levels due to extensive volcanism during the Flood. See Carbon dating into the future (Creation Ministries International).. Christian apologetists state that the biblical flood would have occurred before the Egyptian pyramids were built and that the commonly cited Egyptian chronology is errant and built upon poor foundations..70)http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2503. Also, Christian apologists argue that ancient Sumerian history supports the flood account given in the Bible..71)http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a009.html In addition, ancient Sumerian literature speaks of a worldwide flood..72)http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/sumer-faq.html#A1.6.

Creationist scientists also state that the chronology used to dispute a worldwide flood based on tree rings is invalid..73)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=381..74)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/docs/tree_ring.asp..75)http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/answers/c14_treerings.php..76)http://www.grisda.org/origins/21066.htm..77)http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/26/26_1a.html..78)http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/abstracts/sum29_4.html.

Creationist Scientists Defense of Flood Geology79)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Creationist_Scientists_Defense_of_Flood_Geology

Creationist scientists assert that there are multiple lines of evidence from the field of geology showing that flood geology is correct..80)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/geology.asp..81)http://www.creationism.org/topbar/geology.htm..82)http://www.grisda.org/georpts/gr11.htm..83)http://www.nwcreation.net/geologylinks.html..84)http://globalflood.org/. Creationist scientists also state that there was enough water to cause a worldwide flood and various other objections to a worldwide flood are invalid..85)http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/flood12.asp..86)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/flood.asp.

History87)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#History

Until the rise of uniformitarian geology in the early 19th century, most geologists accepted the Noahic deluge as part of geology. But James Hutton proposed in 1795 that geology ought to be based on the processes that we see happening now, thereby automatically ruling the Flood out of consideration. During the 19th century a number of “scriptural geologists” held out against the rising acceptance of Hutton’s principles, but they fought a losing battle and interest in flood geology virtually died out by the end of the 19th century.

However, in the second half of the 20th century, interest was revived amongst people keen to show that the biblical account was correct, and a small but growing number of geologists are now studying this field again, although the vast majority of geologists still reject the idea of a global flood on Earth. At the same time, there has been a recent resurgence of catastrophism in geological interpretation..88)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=print&ID=84..89)http://www.grisda.org/georpts/gr11.htm.

Interest in Flood Geology was stimulated by the 1961 publication of The Genesis Flood, by Henry Morris and John Whitcomb. Dr. Henry Morris had a number of arguments for geology supporting a worldwide flood..90)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=54..91)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=print&ID=84..92)http://www.icr.org/article/842/.

Now lets get back to the broader view of whether God uses weather to judge nations; consider the following passages:93)http://www.thebiblicalworldview.org/does-god-use-weather-as-judgme/

Example: 2.0 (a)

Job 37:9-16 NLT

9 The stormy wind comes from its chamber,
and the driving winds bring the cold.
10 God’s breath sends the ice,
freezing wide expanses of water.
11 He loads the clouds with moisture,
and they flash with his lightning.
12 The clouds churn about at his direction.
They do whatever he commands throughout the earth.
13 He makes these things happen either to punish people
or to show his unfailing love.
14 “Pay attention to this, Job.
Stop and consider the wonderful miracles of God!
15 Do you know how God controls the storm
and causes the lightning to flash from his clouds?
16 Do you understand how he moves the clouds
with wonderful perfection and skill?

The Hebrew word for “stormy wind” is cawphah and means a hurricane.

Example: 2.0 (b)

Job 37:9-16 ESV

9 From its chamber comes the whirlwind,
and cold from the scattering winds.
10 By the breath of God ice is given,
and the broad waters are frozen fast.
11 He loads the thick cloud with moisture;
the clouds scatter his lightning.
12 They turn around and around by his guidance,
to accomplish all that he commands them
on the face of the habitable world.
13 Whether for correction or for his land
or for love, he causes it to happen.
14 “Hear this, O Job;
stop and consider the wondrous works of God.
15 Do you know how God lays his command upon them
and causes the lightning of his cloud to shine?
16 Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge,


Example: 3.0 (a)

Amos 3:6-7 NLT

6 When the ram’s horn blows a warning,
shouldn’t the people be alarmed?
Does disaster come to a city
unless the Lord has planned it?
7 Indeed, the Sovereign Lord never does anything
until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets.

Example: 3.0 (b)

Amos 3:6-7 ESV

6 Is a trumpet blown in a city,
and the people are not afraid?
Does disaster come to a city,
unless the Lord has done it?
7 “For the Lord God does nothing
without revealing his secret
to his servants the prophets.


Example: 4.0 (a)

Amos 3:10-11 NLT

10 “My people have forgotten how to do right,”
says the Lord.
“Their fortresses are filled with wealth
taken by theft and violence.
11 Therefore,” says the Sovereign Lord,
an enemy is coming!
He will surround them and shatter their defenses.
Then he will plunder all their fortresses.

Example: 4.0 (b)

Amos 3:10-11 ESV

10 “They do not know how to do right,” declares the Lord,
“those who store up violence and robbery in their strongholds.”
11 Therefore thus says the Lord God:

“An adversary shall surround the land
and bring down your defenses from you,
and your strongholds shall be plundered.”

geggeg2ic-150sqInsight: Clearly Amos in speaking to the nation of Israel and unapologetically proclaims that God destroys cities of wicked nations which is described as “They do not know how to do right,” the abandonment of Gods absolutes will always attract Gods attention and become the catalyst which ushers Gods hand of Judgments. These Judgments come in various manners and intensities depending on the willingness of an individual or a nation to come around to Gods perspective. ie. “doing what is right in the sight of God creator of Heaven and Earth”.


Example: 5.0 (a)

Amos 4:6-12 NLT

6 “I brought hunger to every city
and famine to every town.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
7 “I kept the rain from falling
when your crops needed it the most.
I sent rain on one town
but withheld it from another.
Rain fell on one field,
while another field withered away.
8 People staggered from town to town looking for water,
but there was never enough.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
9 “I struck your farms and vineyards with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured all your fig and olive trees.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
10 “I sent plagues on you
like the plagues I sent on Egypt long ago.
I killed your young men in war
and led all your horses away.
The stench of death filled the air!
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
11 “I destroyed some of your cities,
as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
Those of you who survived
were like charred sticks pulled from a fire.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
12 “Therefore, I will bring upon you all the disasters I have announced.
Prepare to meet your God in judgment, you people of Israel!”

Example: 5.0 (b)

Amos 4:6-12 ESV

Israel Has Not Returned to the Lord

6 “I gave you cleanness of teeth in all your cities,
and lack of bread in all your places,
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
7 “I also withheld the rain from you
when there were yet three months to the harvest;
I would send rain on one city,
and send no rain on another city;
one field would have rain,
and the field on which it did not rain would wither;
8 so two or three cities would wander to another city
to drink water, and would not be satisfied;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
9 “I struck you with blight and mildew;
your many gardens and your vineyards,
your fig trees and your olive trees the locust devoured;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
10 “I sent among you a pestilence after the manner of Egypt;
I killed your young men with the sword,
and carried away your horses,
and I made the stench of your camp go up into your nostrils;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
11 “I overthrew some of you,
as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,
and you were as a brand plucked out of the burning;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
12 “Therefore thus I will do to you, O Israel;
because I will do this to you,
prepare to meet your God, O Israel!”


geggeg2ic-150sqClearly in this passage above the purpose of divine judgment is to bring repentance to nations and people. When God sent the prophet Jonah to preach repentance to Nineveh, he did not tell Jonah to placate94)http://www.dictionary.com/browse/placate Nineveh’s sins, rather proclaim with no doubt that if they did not repent, God would destroy the nation. Fortunately Ninevah listened and repented therefore God stayed his judgment. However, about forty years later, suffering from a short memory they went back to loving their sin and consequently God of Heaven and Earth destroyed the city and all that dwelt within it.

Consider this.

Psalm 9:16-17 ESV

16 The Lord has made himself known; he has executed judgment;
the wicked are snared in the work of their own hands. Higgaion. Selah
17 The wicked shall return to Sheol,
all the nations that forget God.

Thankfully we do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand what “that forget God” means95)http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/shakeach.html

simply it is to pay Him no mind or ignore Him as being irrelevant. 

This is surely indicative of many nations and particularly among the leaderships in government, business’s and people’s in general.

May I suggest a wise response is: With honesty ask yourself the question are you one of the “people” and what will you do about changing the course that you’ve found yourself on.

 

geggeg2ic-150sqCapping this off then. There are very clear examples of judgments of God to Nations and individual found in the Bible and within these records there is clearly seen a record of God’s attempts to bring the offenders to their senses before the awfulness of the consequences arrive due to conduct the is “not right” before God. Surely no one wants to receive the reward that God has clearly stated will come if an individual or nation becomes recalcitrant and stubborn in heart by refusing to comply to the  Just and Righteous God who is the creator of Heaven and Earth whose son is Jesus the Christ.

What I want to leave clearly in your mind, heart and spirit this “The Choices is yours Now”

Also the consequences will also be yours now!

And secondly when you find yourself standing at the Great White Throne of Judgement and there is no one you can shift the blame to, Gods just Judgement of the the Lake of Fire will be your eternal consequence. for all who stand before God with a “Sin Debt”

What must we do to be saved the apostle peter was asked?

Acts 2:37-41 TLB

37 These words of Peter’s moved them deeply, and they said to him and to the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?”

38 And Peter replied, “Each one of you must turn from sin, return to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; then you also shall receive this gift, the Holy Spirit. 39 For Christ promised him to each one of you who has been called by the Lord our God, and to your children and even to those in distant lands!”

40 Then Peter preached a long sermon, telling about Jesus and strongly urging all his listeners to save themselves from the evils of their nation. 41 And those who believed Peter were baptized—about three thousand in all!

Related Articles:

See 16 Nov: Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

See 17 Nov: Why is there such a problem with the concept God uses the forces of Nature to chastise and Judge in this World

See 18 Nov: Straight Talking “The Tamaki Shakes”

See 19 Nov: Another perspective on the “Tamaki Shake”

See 20 Nov. Tamaki Shakes~Heads-up “Could God be dealing with a Nation”

Share

References   [ + ]

1. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Flood_accounts
2. Sanders, N.K., The Epic of Gilgamesh, Penguin Classics, London, UK, pp. 108-113, 1972
3. Morrison, W.B., Ancient Choctaw Legend of the Great Flood, www.isd.net/mboucher/choctaw/flood1.htm , September 8, 2000.
4. http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145 Nov, 2016
5. Reed, A.W., ‘The Great Flood’, in Aboriginal Fables And Legendary Tales, Reed Books, Sydney, Australia, pp. 55-56, 1965.
6. For full version see: Coates, H., The Flood, Creation 4(3):9-12, 1981.  
7. Berlitz, C., The Lost Ship of Noah, W.H. Allen, London, UK, p. 126, 1987.
8. p. 82 Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.
9. Mercatante, A.S., Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, Child & Associates Publishing, NSW, Australia, p. 613, 1988.
10. pp. 105-106.  Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.
11. The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Chancellor Press, London, UK, pp. 275-277, 1996.
12. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Cause
13. Genesis 6:3
14. Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic by Jonathan Sarfati, Creation, vol. 28 No. 4 pp.12-17
15. Australian Aboriginal Flood Stories, Creation Vol. 5 No. 1, pp. 6-9.
16, 23. Greek, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.
17. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Purpose
18. Genesis 6:5 NIV
19. Genesis According to the Miao People, by Edgar A. Truax, Impact, April 1991
20. Navajo (Four Corners area), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak
21. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#What_saved_the_people
22, 31. Hopi, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.
24. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Who_was_saved.3F
25, 32, 37. Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12
26. Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.
27, 36. Hawaii, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.
28. Genesis 7:13
29. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Birds_sent_out
30. Genesis 8:6-12
33, 35. Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak
34. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#A_rainbow
38. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Other_ancient_references
39. Apollodorus, The Library, book 1
40. Eusebius, Chronicle, book 1
41. http://www.enotes.com/wm-encyclopedia/nuu
42. “Nu’u” A Dictionary of World Mythology. Arthur Cotterell. Oxford University Press, 1997. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. 30 September 2010 http://www.oxfordreference.com/views/ENTRY.html?subview=Main&entry=t73.e525
43. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/flood-legends
44. http://www.answers.com/topic/nu-u
45. https://www.amazon.com/Hawaiian-Mythology-Martha-Warren-Beckwith/dp/0559118627
46. http://www.indians.org/welker/greatflo.htm
47. http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145
48. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology
49. Genesis 7:11 NIV
50. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sedimentary_rock
51. http://pearsonkt.com/summaryStreetOT/texts/Sci-National-Grade-4/iText/products/0-328-34278-5/unitc/ch11/331.html
52. http://www.icr.org/article/570/
53. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sufficient_water
54. Noah’s Flood—what about all that water?, Chapter 4 of the Creation Answers Book, Dr. Don Batten (Ed.
55. http://www.mos.org/oceans/planet/features.html
56. Psalms 104:6-9 (NASB) “You covered it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains. At Your rebuke they fled, At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away. The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass over, So that they will not return to cover the earth.”
57. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossils
58. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossil_fuels
59. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Rock_strata
60. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Pure_sedimentary_layers
61. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Submarine_canyons
62. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Land_canyons
63. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Ancient_accounts_of_a_navigable_Atlantic
64. http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html
65. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Plate_tectonics
66. http://www.globalflood.org/platetec/about.html
67. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Total_destruction
68. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Dating
69. One example is Carbon Dating which is calibrated according to known background levels of C14 in the atmosphere, but this calibration does not account for likely altered levels due to extensive volcanism during the Flood. See Carbon dating into the future (Creation Ministries International).
70. http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2503
71. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a009.html
72. http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/sumer-faq.html#A1.6
73. http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=381
74. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/docs/tree_ring.asp
75. http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/answers/c14_treerings.php
76. http://www.grisda.org/origins/21066.htm
77. http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/26/26_1a.html
78. http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/abstracts/sum29_4.html
79. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Creationist_Scientists_Defense_of_Flood_Geology
80. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/geology.asp
81. http://www.creationism.org/topbar/geology.htm
82, 89. http://www.grisda.org/georpts/gr11.htm
83. http://www.nwcreation.net/geologylinks.html
84. http://globalflood.org/
85. http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/flood12.asp
86. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/flood.asp
87. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#History
88, 91. http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=print&ID=84
90. http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=54
92. http://www.icr.org/article/842/
93. http://www.thebiblicalworldview.org/does-god-use-weather-as-judgme/
94. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/placate
95. http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/shakeach.html