17 Nov. Why is there such a problem with the concept God uses the forces of Nature to chastise and Judge in this World

Profile: GEG 4CM 2ic feature

17 Nov. As I read the fury of editorials in New Zealand directed at Rev. Brian Tamaki which have burst in the media of New Zealand concerning the Earthquakes and Judgments of God to Nations Im compelled to present a further rebuttal to Mr. Tamaki’s dissenters and their critiques & criticisms: also see my first response 16 Nov. Titled: “Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

What saddens me most is the deafening silence from Christians… in New Zealand and beyond. Why are they afraid to voice the truth of Gods word concerning how God does deal with Nations from a biblical perspective.

Being Holders of the Truth yet not willing to be a Sound on the Wall warning the Nation of consequences when a nation abandons that which is right before God. Has consequences too!


Stating the obvious:

Prime Key: GOD creator of Heaven and Earth whose son is Jesus the Christ is GOD and Heads-up we are NOT GOD or a god!

“Oh what is mere man that you oh are mindful of him.”

Psalm 144:3 ESV

Psalm 8:4-8 NKJV

paraphrased view Rev. Gary

geggeg2ic-150sqCommentary: It amazes me the evidence of how many people struggle to accept or believe God creator of Heaven and Earth can, would and does use the elements to bring correction or judgement.

Well let put the obvious up the first Historical record; the preserved narrative of “the Great Deluge” The Flood” Noah’s Ark,  The best known of the flood accounts is, firstly, the biblical account in Genesis, and secondly, the one found in the Gilgamesh Epic. 1)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Flood_accounts


What Flood? There is a Wealth of Deluge Legends

Mesopotamia

Tablets excavated from Iraq recount the myths of ancient Mesopotamia. They speak of a vanished culture in Sumer and of a king called Gilgamesh. He was renowned for his great wisdom and knowledge. Gilgamesh related the story of a worldwide flood. This was told to him by Utnapishtim, a king of a pre-flood civilisation and a survivor of the catastrophe.

The story relates that Ea, lord of the waters and man’s guardian, warned Utnapishtim of the deluge by which the gods planned to exterminate mankind. Ea told Utnapishtim to “tear down your house and build a boat” and to “take up into the boat the seed of all living creatures. … [E]ach side of the deck measured one hundred and twenty cubits, making a square”. There were seven decks in all. The flood itself was frightening and full of fury. Utnapishtim recounted that ‘the god of the storm turned daylight to darkness, when he smashed the land like a cup’. Once the tempest had subsided, Utnapishtim ‘looked at the face of the world and there was silence, all mankind was returned to clay. The surface of the sea stretched flat as a rooftop … on every side was the waste of water’. Utnapishtim loosed a dove who returned finding no resting place, and then a swallow with the same result. Finally, a loosed raven did not return. The boat came to ground on a mountaintop and Utnapishtim offered a sacrifice.2)Sanders, N.K., The Epic of Gilgamesh, Penguin Classics, London, UK, pp. 108-113, 1972

North American Indians

The North American Indians have several flood stories. One from the Choctaw tribe tells how, long ago, men became so corrupt that the Great Spirit destroyed them in a flood. Only one man was saved—a prophet whose warnings the people disregarded, and whom the Great Spirit then directed to build a raft from sassafras logs. After many weeks, a small bird guided the prophet to an island where the Great Spirit changed the bird into a beautiful woman who became the wife of the prophet. Their children then repopulated the world.*3)Morrison, W.B., Ancient Choctaw Legend of the Great Flood, www.isd.net/mboucher/choctaw/flood1.htm , September 8, 2000. *4)http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145 Nov, 2016

Australian Aboriginal flood stories

Likewise, there are several Australian Aboriginal flood stories. One tells how, long ago, there was a flood that covered the mountains so that many of the Nurrumbunguttias, or spirit men and women, were drowned. Others, including Pund-jil, were caught up by a whirlwind into the sky. When the waters receded, and the mountains appeared again, and the sea went back into its own place, the son and daughter of Pund-jil ‘went back to earth and became the first of the true men and women who live in the world today’.5)Reed, A.W., ‘The Great Flood’, in Aboriginal Fables And Legendary Tales, Reed Books, Sydney, Australia, pp. 55-56, 1965.

One of the more striking Flood accounts, summarized here.

Australian Aboriginals relate legend of world-destroying flood was discovered by anthropologists among a remote Aboriginal tribe in Western Australia, before any contact with missionaries.

“It came about that the earliest-time children tormented and ill-treated the Winking Owl, Dumbi. Ngadja, the Supreme One, was inwardly grieved and felt deep sorrow for him. He instructed Gajara, ‘If you want to live, take your wife, your sons and your sons’ wives and get a double raft. Because of the Dumbi affair, I intend to drown everyone. I am about to send rain and a sea flood,’ he told them. ‘Put on the raft long-lasting foods that may be stored, foods such as gumi, banimba, and ngalindaja, all these ground foods.’

“So Gajara stored all these foods. He also gathered birds of the air such as the cuckoo, the mistletoe-eater, the rainbow bird, the helmeted friar bird and finches; these he took on the raft, and also a female kangaroo. Gajara gathered his sons as the crew, and his own wife and his sons’ wives together.

“Then Ngadja sent the rainclouds down, shutting the clouds in upon them. The sea-flood came in from the north-north-east and the people were closed in by the salt-water flood and the tidal waters of the sea. Ngadja whirled the flood waters and the earth opened, drowning and flattening them all. He finished them at Dumbey. Meanwhile, the flood carried all those who were on the raft with Gajara along on the current far away to Dulugun.

“At last, the floodwaters brought Gajara back in this direction. He sent some birds out from the raft, first the cuckoo. The cuckoo found the land and did not return to him. Gradually the waters were going down. Later on, the other birds returned to Gajara and he sent them out again the following day. The land was already drying the waters up and the living creatures found a home and food. They killed a kangaroo after landing, and Gajara’s wife, Galgalbiri, put it in the earth oven and cooked it with other foods. The smoke rose slowly until it reached through into the sky. Ngadja, the Supreme Being, could smell the steam and smoke rising from the female kangaroo as it was cooking and he was pleased.

“Ngadja, the Supreme Being, put the rainbow in the sky to keep the rain-clouds back. The rainbow protects us so that the rainfall does not rise too high. Our people understand the significance of it. When we see the rainbow we say, ‘There will not be any abnormally heavy rain.’.”6)For full version see: Coates, H., The Flood, Creation 4(3):9-12, 1981.  

Ancient Chinese

Early Jesuit scholars were the first Europeans to gain access to the Chinese ‘book of all knowledge’ from ancient times. This 4,320-volume collection told of the repercussions of mankind’s rebellion against the gods: “The Earth was shaken to its foundations. The sky sank lower towards the north. The sun, moon, and stars changed their motions. The Earth fell to pieces and the waters in its bosom rushed upwards with violence and overflowed the Earth.”7)Berlitz, C., The Lost Ship of Noah, W.H. Allen, London, UK, p. 126, 1987.

Another story, in the folklore of the Bahnars, a primitive tribe of Cochin, China, tells of how the rivers swelled “till the waters reached the sky, and all living beings perished except two, a brother and a sister, who were saved in a huge chest. They took with them into the chest a pair of every sort of animal …”.8)p. 82 Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.

Egypt

Flood stories from the continent of Africa are rare, but one from Egypt tells of an ancient creation god, Tem, who “was responsible for the primeval flood, which covered the entire earth and destroyed all of mankind except those in Tem’s boat”.9)Mercatante, A.S., Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, Child & Associates Publishing, NSW, Australia, p. 613, 1988.

Peru

The Incas of Peru also had a tradition of a deluge. “They said that the water rose above the highest mountains in the world, so that all people and all created things perished. No living thing escaped except a man and a woman, who floated in a box on the face of the waters and so were saved.”10)pp. 105-106.  Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.

Scandinavia

The stories of the Teutonic tribes of Scandinavia are vivid and describe terrifying events. The imagery of these legends emphasizes the size of the cataclysm. One such tale portrays the chaos of the world when the mighty wolf Fenrir shook himself and “made the whole world tremble. The aged ash tree Yggdrasil [envisaged as the axis of the earth] was shaken from its roots to its topmost branches. Mountains crumbled or split from top to bottom … ”. Men “were driven from their hearths and the human race was swept from the surface of the earth. The earth itself was beginning to lose its shape. Already the stars were coming adrift from the sky and falling into the gaping void. … Flames spurted from fissures in the rocks; everywhere there was the hissing of steam. All living things, all plant life, were blotted out. … And now all the rivers, all the seas rose and overflowed. From every side waves lashed against waves. They swelled and boiled and slowly covered all things. The earth sank beneath the sea …”. Then slowly “the earth emerged from the waves. Mountains rose anew … . Men also reappeared. … Enclosed in the wood itself of the ash tree Yggdrasil … the ancestors of a future race of men had escaped death.”11)The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Chancellor Press, London, UK, pp. 275-277, 1996.

Uncanny coherence to Noah’s account

There are at least 500 legends of a worldwide deluge.

Many of these show remarkable similarities, with many aspects similar to the details about Noah’s Flood in the Bible.

We are left with a few options. Perhaps all the peoples of these remote civilisations had different flood experiences that, by chance, had all these features in common, on which they based their stories. However, the more reasonable alternative is that these legends all find their root in the same one global Flood experience that Genesis records.

So why do sceptics reject the story today? The Bible says that people willingly close their minds about the Flood: “For this is hidden from them by their willing it, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of the water, and through water, being held together by the word of God, through which the world that then was, being flooded by water, perished (2 Peter 3:5-6 ESV).

The Bible also proclaims that this world is being reserved for another cataclysm: “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up (2 Peter 3:10 ESV).

All too often we rest in the surety of yet another benevolent sunrise. We rely too smugly upon the delicate balance that makes life on our planet possible. The ancient prophecies and legends, corruptions though they are of the original true account, help to remind us of our vulnerability before God. We should humbly bow the knee and get in step with His purposes. They are the only purposes that really count.

Here is what I like to describe as: A BOTTOM LINE

Deluge or Flood’: “A world cataclysm during which the earth was inundated or submerged by water: a concept found in almost every mythology in the world. The exceptions are Egypt and Japan …”

Funk and Wagnall’s 1950 Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend

COMMON THEMES IN FLOOD ACCOUNTS:

There are parallel themes going through most of the accounts of the Great Flood. Here are some of them.

Cause12)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Cause

Many of the accounts say that the flood was caused by God or some equivalent being. In Genesis, it was Yahweh.13)Genesis 6:3 In the Gilgamesh Epic, it was the council of the gods.14)Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic by Jonathan Sarfati, Creation, vol. 28 No. 4 pp.12-17 In the Bundaba (Australian aboriginal) flood story, it was Ngowungu, the Great Father.15)Australian Aboriginal Flood Stories, Creation Vol. 5 No. 1, pp. 6-9. The Greeks recorded it as being Zeus.16)Greek, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.

Purpose17)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Purpose

When the cause of the flood is attributed to a god, the reason is frequently said to be for mankind’s wickedness. Genesis adds that “every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time”.18)Genesis 6:5 NIV The Miao account from China says, in verse, “These did not God’s will nor returned His affection. / But fought with each other defying the Godhead. / Their leaders shook fists in the face of the Mighty.”19)Genesis According to the Miao People, by Edgar A. Truax, Impact, April 1991 A Navajo account says that it was because of “their sins of adultery and constant quarreling”.20)Navajo (Four Corners area), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak

What saved the people21)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#What_saved_the_people

People were generally saved either by floating out the flood, or fleeing to the top of a mountain. In the former case, the vessel took a variety of forms. A Hopi Indian story has them surviving in the hollow stems of giant reeds22)Hopi, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. The Greek story has them surviving in a chest.23)Greek, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. In Genesis, Noah was instructed by God to build an ark to dimensions and other specifications included in the account.

Who was saved?24)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Who_was_saved.3F

The survivors were often a single family. An Australian aboriginal account has Ngadgja, the Supreme One, telling Gajara to take his wife, his sons, and his sons’ wives.25)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12 The Masai account from East Africa has Tumbainot taking his two wives, his six sons, and their wives.26)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. A Hawaiian story has Nuu taking his wife and three sons.27)Hawaii, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. Noah took his wife, his three sons, and their wives.28)Genesis 7:13

Birds sent out29)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Birds_sent_out

Genesis describes Noah sending out birds to see if there was yet dry land.30)Genesis 8:6-12 Initially this was unsuccessful, but a subsequent attempt was successful when a dove didn’t return. In the Hopi account also, they unsuccessfully sent out birds to find land.31)Hopi, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. An Australian aboriginal account has a cuckoo not returning because it found land.32)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12 The Masai account has Tumbainot sending out a dove, which returned because it had no place to rest.33)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak

A rainbow34)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#A_rainbow

The Masai account has four rainbows signifying that God’s wrath was over.35)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak A Hawaiian account has the god Kane leaving a rainbow as a perpetual sign of his forgiveness.36)Hawaii, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. From an Australian aboriginal story comes this account: Ngadja, the Supreme Being, put the rainbow in the sky to keep the rain-clouds back. The rainbow lies bent across the sky; he ties up the clouds behind it and the rain does not come. The rainbow keeps the clouds back and protects us so that the rainfall does not rise too high. Our people understand the significance of it. When we see the rainbow we say, ‘There will not be any abnormally heavy rain.’37)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12
Genesis says that the rainbow would be a reminder that God would never again destroy the world with a flood. Genesis 9:12-17 ESV

Other ancient references38)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Other_ancient_references

The Great Flood has left a variety of traditions in many cultures world-wide. In most of them, the stories involve a few survivors and a number of animals in a boat or on a raft; the search for dry land involving a bird; a landing on a mountain, and a sacrifice to the gods after the flood was over.

EUROPEAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Greece Deucalion and Pyrrha were warned by Prometheus about the flood and told to build a chest; they survived when the chest landed on a high mountain.39)Apollodorus, The Library, book 1 Deucalion Mt. Parnassus Yes
ASIAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Babylonia Epic of Gilgamesh; The god Ea warned Utnapishtim of the imminent destruction of the earth; the ark built was cube-shaped, and held his family, friends, and all animals Utnapishtim Mt. Nisir 8 Yes; a raven and dove were used to search for dry land as well
Assyria King Ashurbanipal, who lived in the seventh century B.C., recorded, “I have read intricate tablets inscribed with obscure Sumerian or Akkadian…inscriptions on stone from before the Flood.” Utnapishtim; possibly used the same Gilgamesh tales of Babylonia Mt. Nisir 8 Yes
Chaldean Xisuthrus was warned of a coming flood by the god Chronos, who ordered him to build a boat in which to carry family, friends, and two of every kind of animal.40)Eusebius, Chronicle, book 1 Xisuthrus 8 Yes; birds were used to find land.
China Hihking; The Chinese classic record details one family survived a great flood by gathering their sons and sons’ wives together in a large boat, whereupon they repopulated the earth afterwards. Fuhi 8 Yes
Sumeria Eridu Genesis: the god Enki warns Ziudsura to build a large boat due to the coming destruction of the earth. After a flood lasting seven days, Ziudsura sacrifices to the gods. Ziudsura translation lost translation lost
AUSTRALIAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
OCEANIC ISLANDERS TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Hawaiian A man built a boat to escape a great flood. He landed his vessel on top of Mauna Kea on the Big Island. The man accidentally attributed the cause of his safety to the moon god, and made sacrifices to the wrong god. Kane, the actual creator god descended to the man from a rainbow telling him of his error.*41)http://www.enotes.com/wm-encyclopedia/nuu*42)“Nu’u” A Dictionary of World Mythology. Arthur Cotterell. Oxford University Press, 1997. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. 30 September 2010 http://www.oxfordreference.com/views/ENTRY.html?subview=Main&entry=t73.e525*43)http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/flood-legends*44)http://www.answers.com/topic/nu-u*45)https://www.amazon.com/Hawaiian-Mythology-Martha-Warren-Beckwith/dp/0559118627 Nu’u Mauna Kea Unknown Unknown
AFRICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
NORTH AMERICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Chippewa A war between Nanabozho and the Great Serpent who lived at the bottom of Lake Superior; the serpent, being wounded in the fight, vowed to destroy the tribe by a flood. The tribe quickly built rafts, gathered their animals, and escaped to the highest mountains, which were quickly covered over except the one on which stood Nanabozho46)http://www.indians.org/welker/greatflo.htm Nanabozho unknown unknown Yes
Choctaw The Great Spirit destroyed a corrupt and wicked human race and all life on earth, except a prophet who went in vain to warn the people to repent or die. The prophet survived by building a raft of sassafras logs.47)http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145 known only as the prophet. unknown unknown Yes; the bird which led him to land he named “Puchi Yushuba” (lost pigeon)
SOUTH AMERICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Tamanakis (Carib tribe, Orinoco River basin) A man and woman escaped to the highest peak after being warned of a flood. Afterward, the tossed coconuts behind them, which became the next race of man. Mt Tapanacu

A SECOND LOOK AT “THE FLOOD”

Genesis Flood account48)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology

Genesis provides the most detailed account of the global deluge, including specific dates, measurements, and even some key geological events during the flood. Consequently, flood geologists use it as a starting point for understanding the events of the deluge. Based on the Genesis account, flood geologists argue that the flood resulted from subterranean water erupting to the surface (“the springs of the great deep burst forth”.49)Genesis 7:11 NIV.), combined with 40 days and nights of rain. Although the rain stopped after 40 days, the flood waters continued to rise for 150 days, and lasted just over a year before Noah and the others on the boat were able to leave. During the flood, there was massive tectonic activity, including some land rising up and other land dropping, such that the waters ended up in newly deepened oceans. All the animals and birds (except those on the ark), and large numbers of sea creatures perished, and many of them were buried so quickly that they became fossils, accounting for the vast majority of fossils existing today.

Flood geologists base their belief in a relatively recent global deluge on several strands of evidence. While none of these strands alone is sufficient to prove that a global flood occurred, flood geologists argue that a global deluge is the most reasonable and parsimonious explanation for the evidence.

Sedimentary rock50)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sedimentary_rock

Sedimentary rocks are formed by sand and other sediments which settle out of suspension in water, minerals which dissolve in water (which sand cannot do).51)http://pearsonkt.com/summaryStreetOT/texts/Sci-National-Grade-4/iText/products/0-328-34278-5/unitc/ch11/331.html. and the hard parts of small aquatic organisms such as plankton, which accumulate on the bottom of a body of water and undergo lithification. Although only about 8% of the earth’s rocks are sedimentary, 75%-80% of the Earth’s land area is covered in sedimentary rock..52)http://www.icr.org/article/570/. Therefore, geologists point out, there is irrefutable evidence that at least 75% of the Earth’s land was once covered in water.

Sufficient water53)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sufficient_water

There is enough water on Earth today to cover the entire surface to a depth of 2.7 kilometres (1.7 miles), if the surface was levelled out..54)Noah’s Flood—what about all that water?, Chapter 4 of the Creation Answers Book, Dr. Don Batten (Ed.). Continents emerge because the average ocean depth is 3.7 km..55)http://www.mos.org/oceans/planet/features.html. Flood geologists argue that geological activity during and after the flood lowered the ocean basins, causing water to flow from the continents into the basins, and leaving dry land..56)Psalms 104:6-9 (NASB) “You covered it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains. At Your rebuke they fled, At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away. The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass over, So that they will not return to cover the earth.”.

Fossils57)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossils

Fossilization requires rapid burial in a sedimentary solution, and subsequent rapid lithification of the solution. Slow burial does not result in fossilization, because the remains decay prior to being fossilized. Therefore, every fossil was buried in rapidly deposited sedimentary material which subsequently turned to stone.

Fossil fuels58)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossil_fuels

Fossil fuel formation requires the burial of enormous amounts of organic matter under a sedimentary solution, and the application of heat and pressure. Slow burial processes do not produce fossil fuels, because the organic matter decays prior to conversion into a fossil fuel. Therefore, all fossil fuels on earth were quickly buried under sedimentary material which subsequently turned to stone;

Similar processes have been observed in Spirit Lake following the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980.

Rock strata59)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Rock_strata

Most sedimentary rocks are layered, forming sharply defined lines at varying depths. Were these formed over long periods, erosion would have softened these lines. The sharpness of the lines implies rapid deposition and lithification.

Pure sedimentary layers60)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Pure_sedimentary_layers

If sedimentary layers were laid down over millennia, they would have experienced mixing. However, many rock strata are pure—for example, the St. Peter Sandstone, covering 500,000 sq miles of the United States, is 99.94% pure silica. While uniformitarian scientists state that it was deposited by the shore of a sea, they cannot explain how it remained so pure if it was laid out over a long period of time. However, the sorting processes of liquefaction, consistent with a global flood, can make such an explanation.

Submarine canyons61)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Submarine_canyons

Canyons can be found under the sea at the end of many major world rivers, including the Congo, Amazon, Ganges, and Hudson. They extend for thousands of miles underwater, thousands of feet under the sea; they are as deep as the Grand Canyon in places, and although not well understood by the mainstream scientific community, they are generally understood to have developed when sea-levels were significantly lower than today. Flood geologists argue that as the continents divided and the flood subsided, these major rivers drained the new continents, and the water flowed into the new low-lying areas, which would fill to become seas, leaving the sediments to dry out of their liquefied state.

Land canyons62)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Land_canyons

As explanation for great land canyons such as the Grand Canyon, flood geologists point to canyon formation events such as the catastrophic hot mud slides observed during the eruption of Mt. St. Helens. One particular hot mud slide at Mt. St. Helens carved a canyon 140 ft. deep and 17 miles long in a single day. Only a thin creek remains at the bottom of the canyon today, which would likely be interpreted as having carved the canyon “over millions of years,” if it were not known first-hand that the canyon was carved in a single day.

Ancient accounts of a navigable Atlantic63)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Ancient_accounts_of_a_navigable_Atlantic

Plato’s Timaeus states:

“In those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles [Straight of Gibraltar] … and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.”.64)http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html.

Plate tectonics65)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Plate_tectonics

A clear problem with a global flood is that of repopulation: after the flood, very few non-marine species would survive. In particular, most of those observed today could not possibly have survived – this includes all insects, the vast majority of birds (Some species of albatross may have survived), the vast majority of mammals, and possibly freshwater fish depending on the salinity of the floodwaters.

Flood geology models include a means for these species to survive, most typically via artificial assistance – an Ark, as described in Genesis.

An often-proposed explanation is that of continental drift – that the continents may once have been united in a single supercontinent, which broke into fragments and drifted into the formations seen today during the time between the start of repopulation and today. Continental drift in principle is nearly universally accepted by all geologists, with flood geology differing only in time: While conventional geology estimates the breakup of the supercontinent to have occurred over approximately sixty million years, flood geologists mostly claim that the process occurred during the flood year, whilst a few claim that it occurred at the time of Peleg.

Flood geologists propose several models which would explain how continental drift could proceed at the rapid pace required to allow the rearrangement of continents during or shortly after the flood, then slow to the currently observed rate. One of the best known of these is the runaway subduction model of Dr. John Baumgardner..66)http://www.globalflood.org/platetec/about.html.

Total destruction67)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Total_destruction

Flood geologists argue that the scale of destruction of the Flood, especially if rapid plate tectonics was involved, would mean almost certain total destruction of the pre-Flood world, including any evidence of civilisations predating the Flood, along with the destruction of the Garden of Eden. After the Flood, and particularly after the Tower of Babel, new civilisations developed, that either survive to this day or that we find archaeological evidence of today.

Dating68)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Dating

Flood geologists date the flood to around 2350 B.C., based on biblical chronology. They argue that archaeological dates which purport to show civilisations and artifacts being older than the Flood (see Criticisms) are incorrect because they are based on the presumption that none of these methods would be altered by the effects of a global flood in such a way as to render conclusions drawn from them invalid..69)One example is Carbon Dating which is calibrated according to known background levels of C14 in the atmosphere, but this calibration does not account for likely altered levels due to extensive volcanism during the Flood. See Carbon dating into the future (Creation Ministries International).. Christian apologetists state that the biblical flood would have occurred before the Egyptian pyramids were built and that the commonly cited Egyptian chronology is errant and built upon poor foundations..70)http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2503. Also, Christian apologists argue that ancient Sumerian history supports the flood account given in the Bible..71)http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a009.html In addition, ancient Sumerian literature speaks of a worldwide flood..72)http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/sumer-faq.html#A1.6.

Creationist scientists also state that the chronology used to dispute a worldwide flood based on tree rings is invalid..73)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=381..74)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/docs/tree_ring.asp..75)http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/answers/c14_treerings.php..76)http://www.grisda.org/origins/21066.htm..77)http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/26/26_1a.html..78)http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/abstracts/sum29_4.html.

Creationist Scientists Defense of Flood Geology79)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Creationist_Scientists_Defense_of_Flood_Geology

Creationist scientists assert that there are multiple lines of evidence from the field of geology showing that flood geology is correct..80)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/geology.asp..81)http://www.creationism.org/topbar/geology.htm..82)http://www.grisda.org/georpts/gr11.htm..83)http://www.nwcreation.net/geologylinks.html..84)http://globalflood.org/. Creationist scientists also state that there was enough water to cause a worldwide flood and various other objections to a worldwide flood are invalid..85)http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/flood12.asp..86)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/flood.asp.

History87)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#History

Until the rise of uniformitarian geology in the early 19th century, most geologists accepted the Noahic deluge as part of geology. But James Hutton proposed in 1795 that geology ought to be based on the processes that we see happening now, thereby automatically ruling the Flood out of consideration. During the 19th century a number of “scriptural geologists” held out against the rising acceptance of Hutton’s principles, but they fought a losing battle and interest in flood geology virtually died out by the end of the 19th century.

However, in the second half of the 20th century, interest was revived amongst people keen to show that the biblical account was correct, and a small but growing number of geologists are now studying this field again, although the vast majority of geologists still reject the idea of a global flood on Earth. At the same time, there has been a recent resurgence of catastrophism in geological interpretation..88)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=print&ID=84..89)http://www.grisda.org/georpts/gr11.htm.

Interest in Flood Geology was stimulated by the 1961 publication of The Genesis Flood, by Henry Morris and John Whitcomb. Dr. Henry Morris had a number of arguments for geology supporting a worldwide flood..90)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=54..91)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=print&ID=84..92)http://www.icr.org/article/842/.

Now lets get back to the broader view of whether God uses weather to judge nations; consider the following passages:93)http://www.thebiblicalworldview.org/does-god-use-weather-as-judgme/

Example: 2.0 (a)

Job 37:9-16 NLT

9 The stormy wind comes from its chamber,
and the driving winds bring the cold.
10 God’s breath sends the ice,
freezing wide expanses of water.
11 He loads the clouds with moisture,
and they flash with his lightning.
12 The clouds churn about at his direction.
They do whatever he commands throughout the earth.
13 He makes these things happen either to punish people
or to show his unfailing love.
14 “Pay attention to this, Job.
Stop and consider the wonderful miracles of God!
15 Do you know how God controls the storm
and causes the lightning to flash from his clouds?
16 Do you understand how he moves the clouds
with wonderful perfection and skill?

The Hebrew word for “stormy wind” is cawphah and means a hurricane.

Example: 2.0 (b)

Job 37:9-16 ESV

9 From its chamber comes the whirlwind,
and cold from the scattering winds.
10 By the breath of God ice is given,
and the broad waters are frozen fast.
11 He loads the thick cloud with moisture;
the clouds scatter his lightning.
12 They turn around and around by his guidance,
to accomplish all that he commands them
on the face of the habitable world.
13 Whether for correction or for his land
or for love, he causes it to happen.
14 “Hear this, O Job;
stop and consider the wondrous works of God.
15 Do you know how God lays his command upon them
and causes the lightning of his cloud to shine?
16 Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge,


Example: 3.0 (a)

Amos 3:6-7 NLT

6 When the ram’s horn blows a warning,
shouldn’t the people be alarmed?
Does disaster come to a city
unless the Lord has planned it?
7 Indeed, the Sovereign Lord never does anything
until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets.

Example: 3.0 (b)

Amos 3:6-7 ESV

6 Is a trumpet blown in a city,
and the people are not afraid?
Does disaster come to a city,
unless the Lord has done it?
7 “For the Lord God does nothing
without revealing his secret
to his servants the prophets.


Example: 4.0 (a)

Amos 3:10-11 NLT

10 “My people have forgotten how to do right,”
says the Lord.
“Their fortresses are filled with wealth
taken by theft and violence.
11 Therefore,” says the Sovereign Lord,
an enemy is coming!
He will surround them and shatter their defenses.
Then he will plunder all their fortresses.

Example: 4.0 (b)

Amos 3:10-11 ESV

10 “They do not know how to do right,” declares the Lord,
“those who store up violence and robbery in their strongholds.”
11 Therefore thus says the Lord God:

“An adversary shall surround the land
and bring down your defenses from you,
and your strongholds shall be plundered.”

geggeg2ic-150sqInsight: Clearly Amos in speaking to the nation of Israel and unapologetically proclaims that God destroys cities of wicked nations which is described as “They do not know how to do right,” the abandonment of Gods absolutes will always attract Gods attention and become the catalyst which ushers Gods hand of Judgments. These Judgments come in various manners and intensities depending on the willingness of an individual or a nation to come around to Gods perspective. ie. “doing what is right in the sight of God creator of Heaven and Earth”.


Example: 5.0 (a)

Amos 4:6-12 NLT

6 “I brought hunger to every city
and famine to every town.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
7 “I kept the rain from falling
when your crops needed it the most.
I sent rain on one town
but withheld it from another.
Rain fell on one field,
while another field withered away.
8 People staggered from town to town looking for water,
but there was never enough.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
9 “I struck your farms and vineyards with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured all your fig and olive trees.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
10 “I sent plagues on you
like the plagues I sent on Egypt long ago.
I killed your young men in war
and led all your horses away.
The stench of death filled the air!
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
11 “I destroyed some of your cities,
as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
Those of you who survived
were like charred sticks pulled from a fire.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
12 “Therefore, I will bring upon you all the disasters I have announced.
Prepare to meet your God in judgment, you people of Israel!”

Example: 5.0 (b)

Amos 4:6-12 ESV

Israel Has Not Returned to the Lord

6 “I gave you cleanness of teeth in all your cities,
and lack of bread in all your places,
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
7 “I also withheld the rain from you
when there were yet three months to the harvest;
I would send rain on one city,
and send no rain on another city;
one field would have rain,
and the field on which it did not rain would wither;
8 so two or three cities would wander to another city
to drink water, and would not be satisfied;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
9 “I struck you with blight and mildew;
your many gardens and your vineyards,
your fig trees and your olive trees the locust devoured;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
10 “I sent among you a pestilence after the manner of Egypt;
I killed your young men with the sword,
and carried away your horses,
and I made the stench of your camp go up into your nostrils;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
11 “I overthrew some of you,
as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,
and you were as a brand plucked out of the burning;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
12 “Therefore thus I will do to you, O Israel;
because I will do this to you,
prepare to meet your God, O Israel!”


geggeg2ic-150sqClearly in this passage above the purpose of divine judgment is to bring repentance to nations and people. When God sent the prophet Jonah to preach repentance to Nineveh, he did not tell Jonah to placate94)http://www.dictionary.com/browse/placate Nineveh’s sins, rather proclaim with no doubt that if they did not repent, God would destroy the nation. Fortunately Ninevah listened and repented therefore God stayed his judgment. However, about forty years later, suffering from a short memory they went back to loving their sin and consequently God of Heaven and Earth destroyed the city and all that dwelt within it.

Consider this.

Psalm 9:16-17 ESV

16 The Lord has made himself known; he has executed judgment;
the wicked are snared in the work of their own hands. Higgaion. Selah
17 The wicked shall return to Sheol,
all the nations that forget God.

Thankfully we do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand what “that forget God” means95)http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/shakeach.html

simply it is to pay Him no mind or ignore Him as being irrelevant. 

This is surely indicative of many nations and particularly among the leaderships in government, business’s and people’s in general.

May I suggest a wise response is: With honesty ask yourself the question are you one of the “people” and what will you do about changing the course that you’ve found yourself on.

 

geggeg2ic-150sqCapping this off then. There are very clear examples of judgments of God to Nations and individual found in the Bible and within these records there is clearly seen a record of God’s attempts to bring the offenders to their senses before the awfulness of the consequences arrive due to conduct the is “not right” before God. Surely no one wants to receive the reward that God has clearly stated will come if an individual or nation becomes recalcitrant and stubborn in heart by refusing to comply to the  Just and Righteous God who is the creator of Heaven and Earth whose son is Jesus the Christ.

What I want to leave clearly in your mind, heart and spirit this “The Choices is yours Now”

Also the consequences will also be yours now!

And secondly when you find yourself standing at the Great White Throne of Judgement and there is no one you can shift the blame to, Gods just Judgement of the the Lake of Fire will be your eternal consequence. for all who stand before God with a “Sin Debt”

What must we do to be saved the apostle peter was asked?

Acts 2:37-41 TLB

37 These words of Peter’s moved them deeply, and they said to him and to the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?”

38 And Peter replied, “Each one of you must turn from sin, return to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; then you also shall receive this gift, the Holy Spirit. 39 For Christ promised him to each one of you who has been called by the Lord our God, and to your children and even to those in distant lands!”

40 Then Peter preached a long sermon, telling about Jesus and strongly urging all his listeners to save themselves from the evils of their nation. 41 And those who believed Peter were baptized—about three thousand in all!

Related Articles:

See 16 Nov: Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

See 17 Nov: Why is there such a problem with the concept God uses the forces of Nature to chastise and Judge in this World

See 18 Nov: Straight Talking “The Tamaki Shakes”

See 19 Nov: Another perspective on the “Tamaki Shake”

See 20 Nov. Tamaki Shakes~Heads-up “Could God be dealing with a Nation”

References   [ + ]

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