18 Nov. Straight Talking “The Tamaki Shakes”

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The ongoing debacle concerning comments Ps. Brian Tamaki has caught my attention and I’ve felt compelled to highlight some things about God that are being overlooked or disbelief or just out right rejected in spite of the Word of God reveals. The topic clearly has engaged a major river of emotions however we must move out from that river and draw from a well which reveals TRUTH. God’s Word.

Someone incredibly dear to my heart in NZ wrote.

“Most of these poor affected people in Kaikoura are probably not homosexual or having affairs so why point the finger”

geggeg2ic-150sqI replied Sadly your observation is correct people who are not “homosexual or adulterers, Fornicators (see 1 Cor 6:9)” etc. will suffer consequences of the guilt why because their “compliance and acceptance” of what is “wrong as being right.” If the people stood up and made their voice heard to political player’s maybe they would not have been bold to embrace and legalize what GOD declares is an abomination before him. A big league item in Gods list of Do Not….

Doing such things gains God’s attention in a manner which if unheeded will spell calamity and judgements to a nation. There is just no escape from that reality Im bound to say “cause and effect”. Nobody thumbs up their nose at God and walks away with no consequences foolish is the man or nation which does so or thinks so.

I then went on to point out “Im must reiterate my thoughts are not driven to defend Tamaki I don’t agree with his word of faith doctrine however I do defend Gods word and truth. I’m looking at “is God shaking” (fig.) The nation to get its attention, that I could not in good conscience rule out the possiblity that it is (please also be clear I am not saying it is either) there sure is firm reason to believe that may well be the case, but what’s happening now is nothing to the moment when God metes out a Nations punishments it will be far more unpleasant and far reaching and devastating that I can a sure all. When God’s says enough. No more.”

The Question to be asked: Is or could be God speaking and a Nation is not Listening?

Also a special person and I consider a friend wrote “I have found my God to be a God of love. and compassion, and He doesn’t work in ways that this minister describes”

geggeg2ic-150sqMy reply was: True … “God is LOVE” However GOD does work in the manner Ps. Tamaki speaks of its clearly in the word of God, and the God of Love also is the Judge and metes out chastisements and judgements to individuals and nations, that too is clear in the word of God, Consider the flood of Noah, consider the sin of Ai consider Israel’s final destruction in AD-70, which laid in effect until 1948 or Ananias and Sapphira, let alone what’s describe yet to come in the book of revelations which is judgements by the same Loving God you’ve talk about.

LOVE AND JUDGE AND JUST IS GOD HE IS LIGHT AND IN HIM IS NO SHADOW OF TURNING, SOVEREIGN IS HE WEIGHING AND BALANCING NATIONS AND PEOPLES HE DOES.

And we know the sin of one can effect a whole nation the sin of Ai clearly shows this to be so. I then also to this friend went on to point out “Im must reiterate my thoughts are not driven to defend Tamaki I don’t agree with his word of faith doctrine however I do defend Gods word and truth. I’m looking at “is God shaking” (fig.) The nation to get its attention, that I could not rule out there sure is firm reason to believe that may well be the case, but what’s happening now is nothing to the moment when God metes out a Nations punishments it will be far more unpleasant and far reaching and devastating that I can a sure all. When God’s says enough. No more.”

Again I hear the echo of: “Is or could be God speaking and a Nation is not Listening?

I can’t help but wonder and I’m reminded of the account of the Vineyard and the Owner recorded in the new testament we must remember the earth and all there is belongs to GOD not us we as just likened to the “husbandmen (tenant farmers)” It would wise to be very careful we are not behaving just as the account recorded below because the final outcome is not pleasant

Luke 20:9-19 KJV

9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.

10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.

11 And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.

12 And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.

13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?

16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

Luke 20:9-19 NLT

Parable of the Evil Farmers

9 Now Jesus turned to the people again and told them this story: “A man planted a vineyard, leased it to tenant farmers, and moved to another country to live for several years. 10 At the time of the grape harvest, he sent one of his servants to collect his share of the crop. But the farmers attacked the servant, beat him up, and sent him back empty-handed. 11 So the owner sent another servant, but they also insulted him, beat him up, and sent him away empty-handed. 12 A third man was sent, and they wounded him and chased him away.

13 “‘What will I do?’ the owner asked himself. ‘I know! I’ll send my cherished son. Surely they will respect him.’

14 “But when the tenant farmers saw his son, they said to each other, ‘Here comes the heir to this estate. Let’s kill him and get the estate for ourselves!’ 15 So they dragged him out of the vineyard and murdered him.

What do you suppose the owner of the vineyard will do to them?”Jesus asked. 16 I’ll tell you—he will come and kill those farmers and lease the vineyard to others.

How terrible that such a thing should ever happen,” his listeners protested.

17 Jesus looked at them and said, “Then what does this Scripture mean?

‘The stone that the builders rejected
has now become the cornerstone.’1)see Ps 20:17 KJV Ps 118:22 KJV

18 Everyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.”

19 The teachers of religious law and the leading priests wanted to arrest Jesus immediately because they realized he was telling the story against them—they were the wicked farmers. But they were afraid of the people’s reaction.

Related Articles:

See 16 Nov: Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

See 17 Nov: Why is there such a problem with the concept God uses the forces of Nature to chastise and Judge in this World

See 18 Nov: Straight Talking “The Tamaki Shakes”

See 19 Nov: Another perspective on the “Tamaki Shake”

See 20 Nov. Tamaki Shakes~Heads-up “Could God be dealing with a Nation”

References   [ + ]

1. see Ps 20:17 KJV Ps 118:22 KJV

17 Nov. Why is there such a problem with the concept God uses the forces of Nature to chastise and Judge in this World

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17 Nov. As I read the fury of editorials in New Zealand directed at Rev. Brian Tamaki which have burst in the media of New Zealand concerning the Earthquakes and Judgments of God to Nations Im compelled to present a further rebuttal to Mr. Tamaki’s dissenters and their critiques & criticisms: also see my first response 16 Nov. Titled: “Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

What saddens me most is the deafening silence from Christians… in New Zealand and beyond. Why are they afraid to voice the truth of Gods word concerning how God does deal with Nations from a biblical perspective.

Being Holders of the Truth yet not willing to be a Sound on the Wall warning the Nation of consequences when a nation abandons that which is right before God. Has consequences too!


Stating the obvious:

Prime Key: GOD creator of Heaven and Earth whose son is Jesus the Christ is GOD and Heads-up we are NOT GOD or a god!

“Oh what is mere man that you oh are mindful of him.”

Psalm 144:3 ESV

Psalm 8:4-8 NKJV

paraphrased view Rev. Gary

geggeg2ic-150sqCommentary: It amazes me the evidence of how many people struggle to accept or believe God creator of Heaven and Earth can, would and does use the elements to bring correction or judgement.

Well let put the obvious up the first Historical record; the preserved narrative of “the Great Deluge” The Flood” Noah’s Ark,  The best known of the flood accounts is, firstly, the biblical account in Genesis, and secondly, the one found in the Gilgamesh Epic. 1)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Flood_accounts


What Flood? There is a Wealth of Deluge Legends

Mesopotamia

Tablets excavated from Iraq recount the myths of ancient Mesopotamia. They speak of a vanished culture in Sumer and of a king called Gilgamesh. He was renowned for his great wisdom and knowledge. Gilgamesh related the story of a worldwide flood. This was told to him by Utnapishtim, a king of a pre-flood civilisation and a survivor of the catastrophe.

The story relates that Ea, lord of the waters and man’s guardian, warned Utnapishtim of the deluge by which the gods planned to exterminate mankind. Ea told Utnapishtim to “tear down your house and build a boat” and to “take up into the boat the seed of all living creatures. … [E]ach side of the deck measured one hundred and twenty cubits, making a square”. There were seven decks in all. The flood itself was frightening and full of fury. Utnapishtim recounted that ‘the god of the storm turned daylight to darkness, when he smashed the land like a cup’. Once the tempest had subsided, Utnapishtim ‘looked at the face of the world and there was silence, all mankind was returned to clay. The surface of the sea stretched flat as a rooftop … on every side was the waste of water’. Utnapishtim loosed a dove who returned finding no resting place, and then a swallow with the same result. Finally, a loosed raven did not return. The boat came to ground on a mountaintop and Utnapishtim offered a sacrifice.2)Sanders, N.K., The Epic of Gilgamesh, Penguin Classics, London, UK, pp. 108-113, 1972

North American Indians

The North American Indians have several flood stories. One from the Choctaw tribe tells how, long ago, men became so corrupt that the Great Spirit destroyed them in a flood. Only one man was saved—a prophet whose warnings the people disregarded, and whom the Great Spirit then directed to build a raft from sassafras logs. After many weeks, a small bird guided the prophet to an island where the Great Spirit changed the bird into a beautiful woman who became the wife of the prophet. Their children then repopulated the world.*3)Morrison, W.B., Ancient Choctaw Legend of the Great Flood, www.isd.net/mboucher/choctaw/flood1.htm , September 8, 2000. *4)http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145 Nov, 2016

Australian Aboriginal flood stories

Likewise, there are several Australian Aboriginal flood stories. One tells how, long ago, there was a flood that covered the mountains so that many of the Nurrumbunguttias, or spirit men and women, were drowned. Others, including Pund-jil, were caught up by a whirlwind into the sky. When the waters receded, and the mountains appeared again, and the sea went back into its own place, the son and daughter of Pund-jil ‘went back to earth and became the first of the true men and women who live in the world today’.5)Reed, A.W., ‘The Great Flood’, in Aboriginal Fables And Legendary Tales, Reed Books, Sydney, Australia, pp. 55-56, 1965.

One of the more striking Flood accounts, summarized here.

Australian Aboriginals relate legend of world-destroying flood was discovered by anthropologists among a remote Aboriginal tribe in Western Australia, before any contact with missionaries.

“It came about that the earliest-time children tormented and ill-treated the Winking Owl, Dumbi. Ngadja, the Supreme One, was inwardly grieved and felt deep sorrow for him. He instructed Gajara, ‘If you want to live, take your wife, your sons and your sons’ wives and get a double raft. Because of the Dumbi affair, I intend to drown everyone. I am about to send rain and a sea flood,’ he told them. ‘Put on the raft long-lasting foods that may be stored, foods such as gumi, banimba, and ngalindaja, all these ground foods.’

“So Gajara stored all these foods. He also gathered birds of the air such as the cuckoo, the mistletoe-eater, the rainbow bird, the helmeted friar bird and finches; these he took on the raft, and also a female kangaroo. Gajara gathered his sons as the crew, and his own wife and his sons’ wives together.

“Then Ngadja sent the rainclouds down, shutting the clouds in upon them. The sea-flood came in from the north-north-east and the people were closed in by the salt-water flood and the tidal waters of the sea. Ngadja whirled the flood waters and the earth opened, drowning and flattening them all. He finished them at Dumbey. Meanwhile, the flood carried all those who were on the raft with Gajara along on the current far away to Dulugun.

“At last, the floodwaters brought Gajara back in this direction. He sent some birds out from the raft, first the cuckoo. The cuckoo found the land and did not return to him. Gradually the waters were going down. Later on, the other birds returned to Gajara and he sent them out again the following day. The land was already drying the waters up and the living creatures found a home and food. They killed a kangaroo after landing, and Gajara’s wife, Galgalbiri, put it in the earth oven and cooked it with other foods. The smoke rose slowly until it reached through into the sky. Ngadja, the Supreme Being, could smell the steam and smoke rising from the female kangaroo as it was cooking and he was pleased.

“Ngadja, the Supreme Being, put the rainbow in the sky to keep the rain-clouds back. The rainbow protects us so that the rainfall does not rise too high. Our people understand the significance of it. When we see the rainbow we say, ‘There will not be any abnormally heavy rain.’.”6)For full version see: Coates, H., The Flood, Creation 4(3):9-12, 1981.  

Ancient Chinese

Early Jesuit scholars were the first Europeans to gain access to the Chinese ‘book of all knowledge’ from ancient times. This 4,320-volume collection told of the repercussions of mankind’s rebellion against the gods: “The Earth was shaken to its foundations. The sky sank lower towards the north. The sun, moon, and stars changed their motions. The Earth fell to pieces and the waters in its bosom rushed upwards with violence and overflowed the Earth.”7)Berlitz, C., The Lost Ship of Noah, W.H. Allen, London, UK, p. 126, 1987.

Another story, in the folklore of the Bahnars, a primitive tribe of Cochin, China, tells of how the rivers swelled “till the waters reached the sky, and all living beings perished except two, a brother and a sister, who were saved in a huge chest. They took with them into the chest a pair of every sort of animal …”.8)p. 82 Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.

Egypt

Flood stories from the continent of Africa are rare, but one from Egypt tells of an ancient creation god, Tem, who “was responsible for the primeval flood, which covered the entire earth and destroyed all of mankind except those in Tem’s boat”.9)Mercatante, A.S., Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, Child & Associates Publishing, NSW, Australia, p. 613, 1988.

Peru

The Incas of Peru also had a tradition of a deluge. “They said that the water rose above the highest mountains in the world, so that all people and all created things perished. No living thing escaped except a man and a woman, who floated in a box on the face of the waters and so were saved.”10)pp. 105-106.  Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.

Scandinavia

The stories of the Teutonic tribes of Scandinavia are vivid and describe terrifying events. The imagery of these legends emphasizes the size of the cataclysm. One such tale portrays the chaos of the world when the mighty wolf Fenrir shook himself and “made the whole world tremble. The aged ash tree Yggdrasil [envisaged as the axis of the earth] was shaken from its roots to its topmost branches. Mountains crumbled or split from top to bottom … ”. Men “were driven from their hearths and the human race was swept from the surface of the earth. The earth itself was beginning to lose its shape. Already the stars were coming adrift from the sky and falling into the gaping void. … Flames spurted from fissures in the rocks; everywhere there was the hissing of steam. All living things, all plant life, were blotted out. … And now all the rivers, all the seas rose and overflowed. From every side waves lashed against waves. They swelled and boiled and slowly covered all things. The earth sank beneath the sea …”. Then slowly “the earth emerged from the waves. Mountains rose anew … . Men also reappeared. … Enclosed in the wood itself of the ash tree Yggdrasil … the ancestors of a future race of men had escaped death.”11)The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Chancellor Press, London, UK, pp. 275-277, 1996.

Uncanny coherence to Noah’s account

There are at least 500 legends of a worldwide deluge.

Many of these show remarkable similarities, with many aspects similar to the details about Noah’s Flood in the Bible.

We are left with a few options. Perhaps all the peoples of these remote civilisations had different flood experiences that, by chance, had all these features in common, on which they based their stories. However, the more reasonable alternative is that these legends all find their root in the same one global Flood experience that Genesis records.

So why do sceptics reject the story today? The Bible says that people willingly close their minds about the Flood: “For this is hidden from them by their willing it, that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of the water, and through water, being held together by the word of God, through which the world that then was, being flooded by water, perished (2 Peter 3:5-6 ESV).

The Bible also proclaims that this world is being reserved for another cataclysm: “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up (2 Peter 3:10 ESV).

All too often we rest in the surety of yet another benevolent sunrise. We rely too smugly upon the delicate balance that makes life on our planet possible. The ancient prophecies and legends, corruptions though they are of the original true account, help to remind us of our vulnerability before God. We should humbly bow the knee and get in step with His purposes. They are the only purposes that really count.

Here is what I like to describe as: A BOTTOM LINE

Deluge or Flood’: “A world cataclysm during which the earth was inundated or submerged by water: a concept found in almost every mythology in the world. The exceptions are Egypt and Japan …”

Funk and Wagnall’s 1950 Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend

COMMON THEMES IN FLOOD ACCOUNTS:

There are parallel themes going through most of the accounts of the Great Flood. Here are some of them.

Cause12)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Cause

Many of the accounts say that the flood was caused by God or some equivalent being. In Genesis, it was Yahweh.13)Genesis 6:3 In the Gilgamesh Epic, it was the council of the gods.14)Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic by Jonathan Sarfati, Creation, vol. 28 No. 4 pp.12-17 In the Bundaba (Australian aboriginal) flood story, it was Ngowungu, the Great Father.15)Australian Aboriginal Flood Stories, Creation Vol. 5 No. 1, pp. 6-9. The Greeks recorded it as being Zeus.16)Greek, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.

Purpose17)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Purpose

When the cause of the flood is attributed to a god, the reason is frequently said to be for mankind’s wickedness. Genesis adds that “every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time”.18)Genesis 6:5 NIV The Miao account from China says, in verse, “These did not God’s will nor returned His affection. / But fought with each other defying the Godhead. / Their leaders shook fists in the face of the Mighty.”19)Genesis According to the Miao People, by Edgar A. Truax, Impact, April 1991 A Navajo account says that it was because of “their sins of adultery and constant quarreling”.20)Navajo (Four Corners area), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak

What saved the people21)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#What_saved_the_people

People were generally saved either by floating out the flood, or fleeing to the top of a mountain. In the former case, the vessel took a variety of forms. A Hopi Indian story has them surviving in the hollow stems of giant reeds22)Hopi, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. The Greek story has them surviving in a chest.23)Greek, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. In Genesis, Noah was instructed by God to build an ark to dimensions and other specifications included in the account.

Who was saved?24)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Who_was_saved.3F

The survivors were often a single family. An Australian aboriginal account has Ngadgja, the Supreme One, telling Gajara to take his wife, his sons, and his sons’ wives.25)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12 The Masai account from East Africa has Tumbainot taking his two wives, his six sons, and their wives.26)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. A Hawaiian story has Nuu taking his wife and three sons.27)Hawaii, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. Noah took his wife, his three sons, and their wives.28)Genesis 7:13

Birds sent out29)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Birds_sent_out

Genesis describes Noah sending out birds to see if there was yet dry land.30)Genesis 8:6-12 Initially this was unsuccessful, but a subsequent attempt was successful when a dove didn’t return. In the Hopi account also, they unsuccessfully sent out birds to find land.31)Hopi, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. An Australian aboriginal account has a cuckoo not returning because it found land.32)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12 The Masai account has Tumbainot sending out a dove, which returned because it had no place to rest.33)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak

A rainbow34)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#A_rainbow

The Masai account has four rainbows signifying that God’s wrath was over.35)Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak A Hawaiian account has the god Kane leaving a rainbow as a perpetual sign of his forgiveness.36)Hawaii, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak. From an Australian aboriginal story comes this account: Ngadja, the Supreme Being, put the rainbow in the sky to keep the rain-clouds back. The rainbow lies bent across the sky; he ties up the clouds behind it and the rain does not come. The rainbow keeps the clouds back and protects us so that the rainfall does not rise too high. Our people understand the significance of it. When we see the rainbow we say, ‘There will not be any abnormally heavy rain.’37)Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12
Genesis says that the rainbow would be a reminder that God would never again destroy the world with a flood. Genesis 9:12-17 ESV

Other ancient references38)http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Other_ancient_references

The Great Flood has left a variety of traditions in many cultures world-wide. In most of them, the stories involve a few survivors and a number of animals in a boat or on a raft; the search for dry land involving a bird; a landing on a mountain, and a sacrifice to the gods after the flood was over.

EUROPEAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Greece Deucalion and Pyrrha were warned by Prometheus about the flood and told to build a chest; they survived when the chest landed on a high mountain.39)Apollodorus, The Library, book 1 Deucalion Mt. Parnassus Yes
ASIAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Babylonia Epic of Gilgamesh; The god Ea warned Utnapishtim of the imminent destruction of the earth; the ark built was cube-shaped, and held his family, friends, and all animals Utnapishtim Mt. Nisir 8 Yes; a raven and dove were used to search for dry land as well
Assyria King Ashurbanipal, who lived in the seventh century B.C., recorded, “I have read intricate tablets inscribed with obscure Sumerian or Akkadian…inscriptions on stone from before the Flood.” Utnapishtim; possibly used the same Gilgamesh tales of Babylonia Mt. Nisir 8 Yes
Chaldean Xisuthrus was warned of a coming flood by the god Chronos, who ordered him to build a boat in which to carry family, friends, and two of every kind of animal.40)Eusebius, Chronicle, book 1 Xisuthrus 8 Yes; birds were used to find land.
China Hihking; The Chinese classic record details one family survived a great flood by gathering their sons and sons’ wives together in a large boat, whereupon they repopulated the earth afterwards. Fuhi 8 Yes
Sumeria Eridu Genesis: the god Enki warns Ziudsura to build a large boat due to the coming destruction of the earth. After a flood lasting seven days, Ziudsura sacrifices to the gods. Ziudsura translation lost translation lost
AUSTRALIAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
OCEANIC ISLANDERS TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Hawaiian A man built a boat to escape a great flood. He landed his vessel on top of Mauna Kea on the Big Island. The man accidentally attributed the cause of his safety to the moon god, and made sacrifices to the wrong god. Kane, the actual creator god descended to the man from a rainbow telling him of his error.*41)http://www.enotes.com/wm-encyclopedia/nuu*42)“Nu’u” A Dictionary of World Mythology. Arthur Cotterell. Oxford University Press, 1997. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. 30 September 2010 http://www.oxfordreference.com/views/ENTRY.html?subview=Main&entry=t73.e525*43)http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/flood-legends*44)http://www.answers.com/topic/nu-u*45)https://www.amazon.com/Hawaiian-Mythology-Martha-Warren-Beckwith/dp/0559118627 Nu’u Mauna Kea Unknown Unknown
AFRICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
NORTH AMERICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Chippewa A war between Nanabozho and the Great Serpent who lived at the bottom of Lake Superior; the serpent, being wounded in the fight, vowed to destroy the tribe by a flood. The tribe quickly built rafts, gathered their animals, and escaped to the highest mountains, which were quickly covered over except the one on which stood Nanabozho46)http://www.indians.org/welker/greatflo.htm Nanabozho unknown unknown Yes
Choctaw The Great Spirit destroyed a corrupt and wicked human race and all life on earth, except a prophet who went in vain to warn the people to repent or die. The prophet survived by building a raft of sassafras logs.47)http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145 known only as the prophet. unknown unknown Yes; the bird which led him to land he named “Puchi Yushuba” (lost pigeon)
SOUTH AMERICAN TRADITIONS
Culture or people Details Name of Noah Name of mountain Number of survivors Animals involved
Tamanakis (Carib tribe, Orinoco River basin) A man and woman escaped to the highest peak after being warned of a flood. Afterward, the tossed coconuts behind them, which became the next race of man. Mt Tapanacu

A SECOND LOOK AT “THE FLOOD”

Genesis Flood account48)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology

Genesis provides the most detailed account of the global deluge, including specific dates, measurements, and even some key geological events during the flood. Consequently, flood geologists use it as a starting point for understanding the events of the deluge. Based on the Genesis account, flood geologists argue that the flood resulted from subterranean water erupting to the surface (“the springs of the great deep burst forth”.49)Genesis 7:11 NIV.), combined with 40 days and nights of rain. Although the rain stopped after 40 days, the flood waters continued to rise for 150 days, and lasted just over a year before Noah and the others on the boat were able to leave. During the flood, there was massive tectonic activity, including some land rising up and other land dropping, such that the waters ended up in newly deepened oceans. All the animals and birds (except those on the ark), and large numbers of sea creatures perished, and many of them were buried so quickly that they became fossils, accounting for the vast majority of fossils existing today.

Flood geologists base their belief in a relatively recent global deluge on several strands of evidence. While none of these strands alone is sufficient to prove that a global flood occurred, flood geologists argue that a global deluge is the most reasonable and parsimonious explanation for the evidence.

Sedimentary rock50)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sedimentary_rock

Sedimentary rocks are formed by sand and other sediments which settle out of suspension in water, minerals which dissolve in water (which sand cannot do).51)http://pearsonkt.com/summaryStreetOT/texts/Sci-National-Grade-4/iText/products/0-328-34278-5/unitc/ch11/331.html. and the hard parts of small aquatic organisms such as plankton, which accumulate on the bottom of a body of water and undergo lithification. Although only about 8% of the earth’s rocks are sedimentary, 75%-80% of the Earth’s land area is covered in sedimentary rock..52)http://www.icr.org/article/570/. Therefore, geologists point out, there is irrefutable evidence that at least 75% of the Earth’s land was once covered in water.

Sufficient water53)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sufficient_water

There is enough water on Earth today to cover the entire surface to a depth of 2.7 kilometres (1.7 miles), if the surface was levelled out..54)Noah’s Flood—what about all that water?, Chapter 4 of the Creation Answers Book, Dr. Don Batten (Ed.). Continents emerge because the average ocean depth is 3.7 km..55)http://www.mos.org/oceans/planet/features.html. Flood geologists argue that geological activity during and after the flood lowered the ocean basins, causing water to flow from the continents into the basins, and leaving dry land..56)Psalms 104:6-9 (NASB) “You covered it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains. At Your rebuke they fled, At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away. The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass over, So that they will not return to cover the earth.”.

Fossils57)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossils

Fossilization requires rapid burial in a sedimentary solution, and subsequent rapid lithification of the solution. Slow burial does not result in fossilization, because the remains decay prior to being fossilized. Therefore, every fossil was buried in rapidly deposited sedimentary material which subsequently turned to stone.

Fossil fuels58)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossil_fuels

Fossil fuel formation requires the burial of enormous amounts of organic matter under a sedimentary solution, and the application of heat and pressure. Slow burial processes do not produce fossil fuels, because the organic matter decays prior to conversion into a fossil fuel. Therefore, all fossil fuels on earth were quickly buried under sedimentary material which subsequently turned to stone;

Similar processes have been observed in Spirit Lake following the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980.

Rock strata59)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Rock_strata

Most sedimentary rocks are layered, forming sharply defined lines at varying depths. Were these formed over long periods, erosion would have softened these lines. The sharpness of the lines implies rapid deposition and lithification.

Pure sedimentary layers60)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Pure_sedimentary_layers

If sedimentary layers were laid down over millennia, they would have experienced mixing. However, many rock strata are pure—for example, the St. Peter Sandstone, covering 500,000 sq miles of the United States, is 99.94% pure silica. While uniformitarian scientists state that it was deposited by the shore of a sea, they cannot explain how it remained so pure if it was laid out over a long period of time. However, the sorting processes of liquefaction, consistent with a global flood, can make such an explanation.

Submarine canyons61)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Submarine_canyons

Canyons can be found under the sea at the end of many major world rivers, including the Congo, Amazon, Ganges, and Hudson. They extend for thousands of miles underwater, thousands of feet under the sea; they are as deep as the Grand Canyon in places, and although not well understood by the mainstream scientific community, they are generally understood to have developed when sea-levels were significantly lower than today. Flood geologists argue that as the continents divided and the flood subsided, these major rivers drained the new continents, and the water flowed into the new low-lying areas, which would fill to become seas, leaving the sediments to dry out of their liquefied state.

Land canyons62)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Land_canyons

As explanation for great land canyons such as the Grand Canyon, flood geologists point to canyon formation events such as the catastrophic hot mud slides observed during the eruption of Mt. St. Helens. One particular hot mud slide at Mt. St. Helens carved a canyon 140 ft. deep and 17 miles long in a single day. Only a thin creek remains at the bottom of the canyon today, which would likely be interpreted as having carved the canyon “over millions of years,” if it were not known first-hand that the canyon was carved in a single day.

Ancient accounts of a navigable Atlantic63)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Ancient_accounts_of_a_navigable_Atlantic

Plato’s Timaeus states:

“In those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles [Straight of Gibraltar] … and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.”.64)http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html.

Plate tectonics65)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Plate_tectonics

A clear problem with a global flood is that of repopulation: after the flood, very few non-marine species would survive. In particular, most of those observed today could not possibly have survived – this includes all insects, the vast majority of birds (Some species of albatross may have survived), the vast majority of mammals, and possibly freshwater fish depending on the salinity of the floodwaters.

Flood geology models include a means for these species to survive, most typically via artificial assistance – an Ark, as described in Genesis.

An often-proposed explanation is that of continental drift – that the continents may once have been united in a single supercontinent, which broke into fragments and drifted into the formations seen today during the time between the start of repopulation and today. Continental drift in principle is nearly universally accepted by all geologists, with flood geology differing only in time: While conventional geology estimates the breakup of the supercontinent to have occurred over approximately sixty million years, flood geologists mostly claim that the process occurred during the flood year, whilst a few claim that it occurred at the time of Peleg.

Flood geologists propose several models which would explain how continental drift could proceed at the rapid pace required to allow the rearrangement of continents during or shortly after the flood, then slow to the currently observed rate. One of the best known of these is the runaway subduction model of Dr. John Baumgardner..66)http://www.globalflood.org/platetec/about.html.

Total destruction67)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Total_destruction

Flood geologists argue that the scale of destruction of the Flood, especially if rapid plate tectonics was involved, would mean almost certain total destruction of the pre-Flood world, including any evidence of civilisations predating the Flood, along with the destruction of the Garden of Eden. After the Flood, and particularly after the Tower of Babel, new civilisations developed, that either survive to this day or that we find archaeological evidence of today.

Dating68)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Dating

Flood geologists date the flood to around 2350 B.C., based on biblical chronology. They argue that archaeological dates which purport to show civilisations and artifacts being older than the Flood (see Criticisms) are incorrect because they are based on the presumption that none of these methods would be altered by the effects of a global flood in such a way as to render conclusions drawn from them invalid..69)One example is Carbon Dating which is calibrated according to known background levels of C14 in the atmosphere, but this calibration does not account for likely altered levels due to extensive volcanism during the Flood. See Carbon dating into the future (Creation Ministries International).. Christian apologetists state that the biblical flood would have occurred before the Egyptian pyramids were built and that the commonly cited Egyptian chronology is errant and built upon poor foundations..70)http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2503. Also, Christian apologists argue that ancient Sumerian history supports the flood account given in the Bible..71)http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a009.html In addition, ancient Sumerian literature speaks of a worldwide flood..72)http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/sumer-faq.html#A1.6.

Creationist scientists also state that the chronology used to dispute a worldwide flood based on tree rings is invalid..73)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=381..74)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/docs/tree_ring.asp..75)http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/answers/c14_treerings.php..76)http://www.grisda.org/origins/21066.htm..77)http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/26/26_1a.html..78)http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/abstracts/sum29_4.html.

Creationist Scientists Defense of Flood Geology79)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Creationist_Scientists_Defense_of_Flood_Geology

Creationist scientists assert that there are multiple lines of evidence from the field of geology showing that flood geology is correct..80)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/geology.asp..81)http://www.creationism.org/topbar/geology.htm..82)http://www.grisda.org/georpts/gr11.htm..83)http://www.nwcreation.net/geologylinks.html..84)http://globalflood.org/. Creationist scientists also state that there was enough water to cause a worldwide flood and various other objections to a worldwide flood are invalid..85)http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/flood12.asp..86)http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/flood.asp.

History87)http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#History

Until the rise of uniformitarian geology in the early 19th century, most geologists accepted the Noahic deluge as part of geology. But James Hutton proposed in 1795 that geology ought to be based on the processes that we see happening now, thereby automatically ruling the Flood out of consideration. During the 19th century a number of “scriptural geologists” held out against the rising acceptance of Hutton’s principles, but they fought a losing battle and interest in flood geology virtually died out by the end of the 19th century.

However, in the second half of the 20th century, interest was revived amongst people keen to show that the biblical account was correct, and a small but growing number of geologists are now studying this field again, although the vast majority of geologists still reject the idea of a global flood on Earth. At the same time, there has been a recent resurgence of catastrophism in geological interpretation..88)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=print&ID=84..89)http://www.grisda.org/georpts/gr11.htm.

Interest in Flood Geology was stimulated by the 1961 publication of The Genesis Flood, by Henry Morris and John Whitcomb. Dr. Henry Morris had a number of arguments for geology supporting a worldwide flood..90)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=54..91)http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=print&ID=84..92)http://www.icr.org/article/842/.

Now lets get back to the broader view of whether God uses weather to judge nations; consider the following passages:93)http://www.thebiblicalworldview.org/does-god-use-weather-as-judgme/

Example: 2.0 (a)

Job 37:9-16 NLT

9 The stormy wind comes from its chamber,
and the driving winds bring the cold.
10 God’s breath sends the ice,
freezing wide expanses of water.
11 He loads the clouds with moisture,
and they flash with his lightning.
12 The clouds churn about at his direction.
They do whatever he commands throughout the earth.
13 He makes these things happen either to punish people
or to show his unfailing love.
14 “Pay attention to this, Job.
Stop and consider the wonderful miracles of God!
15 Do you know how God controls the storm
and causes the lightning to flash from his clouds?
16 Do you understand how he moves the clouds
with wonderful perfection and skill?

The Hebrew word for “stormy wind” is cawphah and means a hurricane.

Example: 2.0 (b)

Job 37:9-16 ESV

9 From its chamber comes the whirlwind,
and cold from the scattering winds.
10 By the breath of God ice is given,
and the broad waters are frozen fast.
11 He loads the thick cloud with moisture;
the clouds scatter his lightning.
12 They turn around and around by his guidance,
to accomplish all that he commands them
on the face of the habitable world.
13 Whether for correction or for his land
or for love, he causes it to happen.
14 “Hear this, O Job;
stop and consider the wondrous works of God.
15 Do you know how God lays his command upon them
and causes the lightning of his cloud to shine?
16 Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge,


Example: 3.0 (a)

Amos 3:6-7 NLT

6 When the ram’s horn blows a warning,
shouldn’t the people be alarmed?
Does disaster come to a city
unless the Lord has planned it?
7 Indeed, the Sovereign Lord never does anything
until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets.

Example: 3.0 (b)

Amos 3:6-7 ESV

6 Is a trumpet blown in a city,
and the people are not afraid?
Does disaster come to a city,
unless the Lord has done it?
7 “For the Lord God does nothing
without revealing his secret
to his servants the prophets.


Example: 4.0 (a)

Amos 3:10-11 NLT

10 “My people have forgotten how to do right,”
says the Lord.
“Their fortresses are filled with wealth
taken by theft and violence.
11 Therefore,” says the Sovereign Lord,
an enemy is coming!
He will surround them and shatter their defenses.
Then he will plunder all their fortresses.

Example: 4.0 (b)

Amos 3:10-11 ESV

10 “They do not know how to do right,” declares the Lord,
“those who store up violence and robbery in their strongholds.”
11 Therefore thus says the Lord God:

“An adversary shall surround the land
and bring down your defenses from you,
and your strongholds shall be plundered.”

geggeg2ic-150sqInsight: Clearly Amos in speaking to the nation of Israel and unapologetically proclaims that God destroys cities of wicked nations which is described as “They do not know how to do right,” the abandonment of Gods absolutes will always attract Gods attention and become the catalyst which ushers Gods hand of Judgments. These Judgments come in various manners and intensities depending on the willingness of an individual or a nation to come around to Gods perspective. ie. “doing what is right in the sight of God creator of Heaven and Earth”.


Example: 5.0 (a)

Amos 4:6-12 NLT

6 “I brought hunger to every city
and famine to every town.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
7 “I kept the rain from falling
when your crops needed it the most.
I sent rain on one town
but withheld it from another.
Rain fell on one field,
while another field withered away.
8 People staggered from town to town looking for water,
but there was never enough.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
9 “I struck your farms and vineyards with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured all your fig and olive trees.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
10 “I sent plagues on you
like the plagues I sent on Egypt long ago.
I killed your young men in war
and led all your horses away.
The stench of death filled the air!
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
11 “I destroyed some of your cities,
as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
Those of you who survived
were like charred sticks pulled from a fire.
But still you would not return to me,”
says the Lord.
12 “Therefore, I will bring upon you all the disasters I have announced.
Prepare to meet your God in judgment, you people of Israel!”

Example: 5.0 (b)

Amos 4:6-12 ESV

Israel Has Not Returned to the Lord

6 “I gave you cleanness of teeth in all your cities,
and lack of bread in all your places,
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
7 “I also withheld the rain from you
when there were yet three months to the harvest;
I would send rain on one city,
and send no rain on another city;
one field would have rain,
and the field on which it did not rain would wither;
8 so two or three cities would wander to another city
to drink water, and would not be satisfied;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
9 “I struck you with blight and mildew;
your many gardens and your vineyards,
your fig trees and your olive trees the locust devoured;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
10 “I sent among you a pestilence after the manner of Egypt;
I killed your young men with the sword,
and carried away your horses,
and I made the stench of your camp go up into your nostrils;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
11 “I overthrew some of you,
as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,
and you were as a brand plucked out of the burning;
yet you did not return to me,”
declares the Lord.
12 “Therefore thus I will do to you, O Israel;
because I will do this to you,
prepare to meet your God, O Israel!”


geggeg2ic-150sqClearly in this passage above the purpose of divine judgment is to bring repentance to nations and people. When God sent the prophet Jonah to preach repentance to Nineveh, he did not tell Jonah to placate94)http://www.dictionary.com/browse/placate Nineveh’s sins, rather proclaim with no doubt that if they did not repent, God would destroy the nation. Fortunately Ninevah listened and repented therefore God stayed his judgment. However, about forty years later, suffering from a short memory they went back to loving their sin and consequently God of Heaven and Earth destroyed the city and all that dwelt within it.

Consider this.

Psalm 9:16-17 ESV

16 The Lord has made himself known; he has executed judgment;
the wicked are snared in the work of their own hands. Higgaion. Selah
17 The wicked shall return to Sheol,
all the nations that forget God.

Thankfully we do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand what “that forget God” means95)http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/shakeach.html

simply it is to pay Him no mind or ignore Him as being irrelevant. 

This is surely indicative of many nations and particularly among the leaderships in government, business’s and people’s in general.

May I suggest a wise response is: With honesty ask yourself the question are you one of the “people” and what will you do about changing the course that you’ve found yourself on.

 

geggeg2ic-150sqCapping this off then. There are very clear examples of judgments of God to Nations and individual found in the Bible and within these records there is clearly seen a record of God’s attempts to bring the offenders to their senses before the awfulness of the consequences arrive due to conduct the is “not right” before God. Surely no one wants to receive the reward that God has clearly stated will come if an individual or nation becomes recalcitrant and stubborn in heart by refusing to comply to the  Just and Righteous God who is the creator of Heaven and Earth whose son is Jesus the Christ.

What I want to leave clearly in your mind, heart and spirit this “The Choices is yours Now”

Also the consequences will also be yours now!

And secondly when you find yourself standing at the Great White Throne of Judgement and there is no one you can shift the blame to, Gods just Judgement of the the Lake of Fire will be your eternal consequence. for all who stand before God with a “Sin Debt”

What must we do to be saved the apostle peter was asked?

Acts 2:37-41 TLB

37 These words of Peter’s moved them deeply, and they said to him and to the other apostles, “Brothers, what should we do?”

38 And Peter replied, “Each one of you must turn from sin, return to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; then you also shall receive this gift, the Holy Spirit. 39 For Christ promised him to each one of you who has been called by the Lord our God, and to your children and even to those in distant lands!”

40 Then Peter preached a long sermon, telling about Jesus and strongly urging all his listeners to save themselves from the evils of their nation. 41 And those who believed Peter were baptized—about three thousand in all!

Related Articles:

See 16 Nov: Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

See 17 Nov: Why is there such a problem with the concept God uses the forces of Nature to chastise and Judge in this World

See 18 Nov: Straight Talking “The Tamaki Shakes”

See 19 Nov: Another perspective on the “Tamaki Shake”

See 20 Nov. Tamaki Shakes~Heads-up “Could God be dealing with a Nation”

References   [ + ]

1. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Flood_accounts
2. Sanders, N.K., The Epic of Gilgamesh, Penguin Classics, London, UK, pp. 108-113, 1972
3. Morrison, W.B., Ancient Choctaw Legend of the Great Flood, www.isd.net/mboucher/choctaw/flood1.htm , September 8, 2000.
4. http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145 Nov, 2016
5. Reed, A.W., ‘The Great Flood’, in Aboriginal Fables And Legendary Tales, Reed Books, Sydney, Australia, pp. 55-56, 1965.
6. For full version see: Coates, H., The Flood, Creation 4(3):9-12, 1981.  
7. Berlitz, C., The Lost Ship of Noah, W.H. Allen, London, UK, p. 126, 1987.
8. p. 82 Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.
9. Mercatante, A.S., Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, Child & Associates Publishing, NSW, Australia, p. 613, 1988.
10. pp. 105-106.  Frazer, J.G., Folklore in the Old Testament: Studies in Comparative Religion, Legend and Law (Abridged Edition), Avenel Books, New York, NY, USA, p. 107, 1988.
11. The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Chancellor Press, London, UK, pp. 275-277, 1996.
12. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Cause
13. Genesis 6:3
14. Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamesh Epic by Jonathan Sarfati, Creation, vol. 28 No. 4 pp.12-17
15. Australian Aboriginal Flood Stories, Creation Vol. 5 No. 1, pp. 6-9.
16, 23. Greek, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.
17. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Purpose
18. Genesis 6:5 NIV
19. Genesis According to the Miao People, by Edgar A. Truax, Impact, April 1991
20. Navajo (Four Corners area), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak
21. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#What_saved_the_people
22, 31. Hopi, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.
24. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Who_was_saved.3F
25, 32, 37. Aboriginal Flood Legend, by Howard Coates, Creation Vol. 4 No.3, pp.9-12
26. Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.
27, 36. Hawaii, in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak.
28. Genesis 7:13
29. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Birds_sent_out
30. Genesis 8:6-12
33, 35. Masai (East Africa), in Flood Stories from Around the World by Mark Isaak
34. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#A_rainbow
38. http://www.conservapedia.com/Great_Flood#Other_ancient_references
39. Apollodorus, The Library, book 1
40. Eusebius, Chronicle, book 1
41. http://www.enotes.com/wm-encyclopedia/nuu
42. “Nu’u” A Dictionary of World Mythology. Arthur Cotterell. Oxford University Press, 1997. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. 30 September 2010 http://www.oxfordreference.com/views/ENTRY.html?subview=Main&entry=t73.e525
43. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/flood-legends
44. http://www.answers.com/topic/nu-u
45. https://www.amazon.com/Hawaiian-Mythology-Martha-Warren-Beckwith/dp/0559118627
46. http://www.indians.org/welker/greatflo.htm
47. http://mike-boucher.com/wordpress/?page_id=145
48. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology
49. Genesis 7:11 NIV
50. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sedimentary_rock
51. http://pearsonkt.com/summaryStreetOT/texts/Sci-National-Grade-4/iText/products/0-328-34278-5/unitc/ch11/331.html
52. http://www.icr.org/article/570/
53. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Sufficient_water
54. Noah’s Flood—what about all that water?, Chapter 4 of the Creation Answers Book, Dr. Don Batten (Ed.
55. http://www.mos.org/oceans/planet/features.html
56. Psalms 104:6-9 (NASB) “You covered it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains. At Your rebuke they fled, At the sound of Your thunder they hurried away. The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass over, So that they will not return to cover the earth.”
57. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossils
58. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Fossil_fuels
59. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Rock_strata
60. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Pure_sedimentary_layers
61. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Submarine_canyons
62. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Land_canyons
63. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Ancient_accounts_of_a_navigable_Atlantic
64. http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html
65. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Plate_tectonics
66. http://www.globalflood.org/platetec/about.html
67. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Total_destruction
68. http://www.conservapedia.com/Flood_Geology#Dating
69. One example is Carbon Dating which is calibrated according to known background levels of C14 in the atmosphere, but this calibration does not account for likely altered levels due to extensive volcanism during the Flood. See Carbon dating into the future (Creation Ministries International).
70. http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2503
71. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a009.html
72. http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/sumer-faq.html#A1.6
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16 Nov. Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

Truth and Lies feature

Above watch edited clip: The NZ Herald Article interprets Tamaki’s comments by implication of his commentary.
 Right Read the NZ Herald Article >

In the NZ Herald article Reverend Helen Jacobi of Auckland church St Matthew-in-the-City said

“If that was the case, if you followed that to its logical conclusion, a baby dying of cancer would be somehow sinful, and that’s ridiculous. It’s just completely illogical.”

In the NZ Herald article Prime Minister Key said

Prime Minister Key said this afternoon that Tamaki’s comments were “ridiculous”.


“I mean, give me a break,” Key told Radiolive.

“Look, you always get people coming out with these stupid statements.

“The facts of life are New Zealand is a seismically prone country, with a number of very well identified fault lines.

“We’ve been a bit unlucky I think, clearly those plates are moving around a bit.

“It’s nothing to do with people’s sexuality. I mean, it’s just madness.”


geggeg2ic-150sqThis I would say to Rev. Helen; what an illogical rebuttal you put forward, In my opinion it appears your’e speaking from emotive thought processes. The Word of God Speaks for its self ! And that even when it doesn’t fit our preferences it is what it is.

Clearly the Word of God reveals clear consequences for entrenched sin within societies and records Gods dealings and judgements if his warnings go unheeded. This theme runs from the Book of Genesis to the Book of Revelations and as a minister I feel you should know this to be a sound biblical fact.

God is not in the Game of “Political Correctness” and God clearly has no problem naming what is Sin and confronting Individuals and Nations when God deems it necessary; nor is He apologetic in doing so, as God’s primary focus is on building our character into the likeness of Jesus rather than pampering to our desires for comfort which give us a warm feeling and begins to makes us all feel like singing “Kumbaya”.

The Old and New Testament clearly defines certain actions as Sins and some abominations before the Lord and that they have consequences to firstly the individuals and to a nation which embraces such lifestyles as acceptable social codes for conduct.

As ministers we are only a messenger not the writer of the message! Our job is to proclaim/declare/preach/teach the message the way it was written by “God” creator of Heaven and Earth whose son is Jesus.

It is never to be our concern that the hearers may not find the message (Gods Word) palatable or appreciated. Our responsibility is to just tell it the way God has said it, if the hearers do not like the message then they are free to take it up with the author “God” if they dare, Im sure their success at getting God to change his mind about what is sin and what is not; has the same odds as that of you and I seeing the day elephants roost in trees.

Moving on to the comments of Prime Minster Keys:

geggeg2ic-150sqI would suggest Prime Minister Key’s is possibly not terribly qualified or commissioned to be speaking on the behalf of “God” or qualified to expound on how God deals with individuals and society. As I would suggest Prime Minister Key’s command of and knowledge of the “Word of God” is skin deep at best. So Prime Minister Key’s critique of the Ps. Tamaki’s remarks from a pulpit really sit in left field and well out of Prime Minister Key’s areas of expertise.

Let me put it this way; If I need the opinion of a specialist for brain damage issues I do not go to a urologist, If I need an opinion on the God of the Bible I do not go to the Devil for it.

So when a preacher of Gods word casts opinions; I not going to go to the prime minister of NZ, Im going to go to the “Word of God” and see what God has said about it!

And this I would suggest all the readers do; and prior to doing so ask God to reveal the truth of His Word and at the same time be willing to (see and hear) what God has to say about Sin and its effects on a nation or individuals.

This rebuttal I’ve made is not to be construed as myself saying 100% that the happenings of earthquakes in the country of NZ in the last couple of years are connected to an action God is taking against New Zealand for the Nations actions of embracing that which God has clearly said is sin and also the formalization of spiritism into the national ethos in its society as being an essential intrinsic part of the Nations culture.

However I would not rule out the fact that God maybe be making a move to bring chastisement to the Nation of NZ concerning these very issues and along with chastisement a call to the nation to turn back to God and His ways.

In fact it could well be that we are seeing in NZ the birth pangs for a Nation to turn to God once again and allow God to set the standard of Conduct according to His absolutes within the Word of God.

I would suggest a prudent position would be to be very careful that as individuals and a Nation we are not rejecting messengers from God who are being sent to sound the alarm of warning and calling for change towards Gods boundaries as individuals and as Nation.

Rev. Gary (New Zealander by Birth)

HERE A QUALIFIED BIBLICAL OPINION WORTHY OF CONSIDERATION

How are we affected by sin?1)https://carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/how-are-we-affected-sin

There are different schools of thought concerning the extent to which sin has affected us. Without a doubt, sin brings death (Rom. 6:23). Death is not a natural part of God’s creation. When sin entered the world, death came with it (Rom. 5:12). But, to what extent and how deeply are we affected by sin? The Reformed theologians hold to the doctrine of total depravity. This is the teaching that sin has affected all of what the person is in body, soul, emotions, mind, and spirit. Furthermore, the Reformed position states that the effect of sin on our persons makes unbelievers incapable of choosing God on their own since sin has left us dead, blind (Eph. 2:3), and incapable of understanding spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).

In contrast, the Arminian position states that sin has affected all of what we are, but that it has not incapacitated the free-will choices of the unbeliever. The Arminian position states that the unbeliever is still capable of choosing or rejecting God on his own — all he needs is some prompting from the Holy Spirit.

Nevertheless, the extent of the effect of sin upon us will continue to be debated by Christian theologians since the Scripture does not explicitly declare its depth.

Sin has also affected us by its influence on the world.  All we need to do is look around us to see that we grow old, get sick, and die. In other words, the world is decaying and we first notice it in our own bodies.  We also see the effect of sin on societies that war against each other. There is mayhem, killing, theft, adulteries, murders, lying, etc.  Our jails are filled with those who are ruled by sin — which is rebellion against God’s truth.

Also, sin has affected the world in that there are floods, earthquakes, storms, etc.  These are the result of an imperfect world with sin running through it.  When Adam fell, the world was affected by his fall.  Adam represented all of the created order since he was given dominion over it by God.  Therefore, when Adam rebelled he took the world with him in his fall and as the Scripture says, it awaits its own deliverance:

20For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now,

Sin will be remedied finally only by the return of Christ who will then destroy sin and death completely. Until that day, we war against the sinfulness of our fleshly bodies as well as the effects of it upon creation.

Here is the Raw Word of God Scripture Read this and be courageous enough to ask God to reveal the truth of what hes saying within these verses!

Leviticus 18: 1-30 NIV (dynamic translation)

Unlawful Sexual Relations

1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.

6 “‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.

7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’”

Leviticus 18:1-30 ESV (word for word translation)

Unlawful Sexual Relations

1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, I am the Lord your God. 3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes. 4 You shall follow my rules and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the Lord your God. 5 You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.

6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son’s daughter or of your daughter’s daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness. 11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, brought up in your father’s family, since she is your sister. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is your father’s relative. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s relative. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are relatives; it is depravity. 18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is still alive.

19 “You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness. 20 And you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor’s wife and so make yourself unclean with her. 21 You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 And you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is perversion.

24 “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, 25 and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you 27 (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), 28 lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.”


Leviticus 26:1-46 NIV 

Reward for Obedience

1 “‘Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the Lord your God.

“‘Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the Lord.

“‘If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, I will send you rain in its season, and the ground will yield its crops and the trees their fruit. Your threshing will continue until grape harvest and the grape harvest will continue until planting, and you will eat all the food you want and live in safety in your land.

“‘I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid. I will remove wild beasts from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country. You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.

“‘I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. 10 You will still be eating last year’s harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new. 11 I will put my dwelling place among you, and I will not abhor you. 12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people. 13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egyptso that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.

Punishment for Disobedience

14 “‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands,15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.

18 “‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of your land yield their fruit.

21 “‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

23 “‘If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, 24 I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. 25 And I will bring the sword on you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. 26 When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied.

27 “‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eatthe flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. 30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. 31 I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings. 32 I myself will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. 34 Then the land will enjoy its sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it.

36 “‘As for those of you who are left, I will make their hearts so fearful in the lands of their enemies that the sound of a windblown leaf will put them to flight. They will run as though fleeing from the sword, and they will fall, even though no one is pursuing them. 37 They will stumble over one another as though fleeing from the sword, even though no one is pursuing them. So you will not be able to stand before your enemies. 38 You will perish among the nations; the land of your enemies will devour you. 39 Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their ancestors’sins they will waste away.

40 “‘But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors—their unfaithfulness and their hostility toward me, 41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, 42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the Lord their God. 45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.’”

46 These are the decrees, the laws and the regulations that the Lordestablished at Mount Sinai between himself and the Israelites through Moses.

Leviticus 26:1-46 ESV

Blessings for Obedience

1 “You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God. 2 You shall keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

3 “If you walk in my statutes and observe my commandments and do them, 4 then I will give you your rains in their season, and the land shall yield its increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. 5 Your threshing shall last to the time of the grape harvest, and the grape harvest shall last to the time for sowing. And you shall eat your bread to the full and dwell in your land securely. 6 I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid. And I will remove harmful beasts from the land, and the sword shall not go through your land. 7 You shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. 8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall chase ten thousand, and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword. 9 I will turn to you and make you fruitful and multiply you and will confirm my covenant with you. 10 You shall eat old store long kept, and you shall clear out the old to make way for the new. 11 I will make my dwelling among you, and my soul shall not abhor you. 12 And I will walk among you and will be your God, and you shall be my people. 13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves. And I have broken the bars of your yoke and made you walk erect.

Punishment for Disobedience

14 “But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, 15 if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. 18 And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, 19 and I will break the pride of your power, and I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. 20 And your strength shall be spent in vain, for your land shall not yield its increase, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit.

21 “Then if you walk contrary to me and will not listen to me, I will continue striking you, sevenfold for your sins. 22 And I will let loose the wild beasts against you, which shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock and make you few in number, so that your roads shall be deserted.

23 “And if by this discipline you are not turned to me but walk contrary to me, 24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute vengeance for the covenant. And if you gather within your cities, I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26 When I break your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in a single oven and shall dole out your bread again by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.

27 “But if in spite of this you will not listen to me, but walk contrary to me, 28 then I will walk contrary to you in fury, and I myself will discipline you sevenfold for your sins. 29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters. 30 And I will destroy your high places and cut down your incense altars and cast your dead bodies upon the dead bodies of your idols, and my soul will abhor you. 31 And I will lay your cities waste and will make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will not smell your pleasing aromas. 32 And I myself will devastate the land, so that your enemies who settle in it shall be appalled at it. 33 And I will scatter you among the nations, and I will unsheathe the sword after you, and your land shall be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.

34 “Then the land shall enjoy its Sabbaths as long as it lies desolate, while you are in your enemies’ land; then the land shall rest, and enjoy its Sabbaths. 35 As long as it lies desolate it shall have rest, the rest that it did not have on your Sabbaths when you were dwelling in it. 36 And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies. The sound of a driven leaf shall put them to flight, and they shall flee as one flees from the sword, and they shall fall when none pursues. 37 They shall stumble over one another, as if to escape a sword, though none pursues. And you shall have no power to stand before your enemies. 38 And you shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up. 39 And those of you who are left shall rot away in your enemies’ lands because of their iniquity, and also because of the iniquities of their fathers they shall rot away like them.

40 “But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers in their treachery that they committed against me, and also in walking contrary to me, 41 so that I walked contrary to them and brought them into the land of their enemies—if then their uncircumcised heart is humbled and they make amends for their iniquity, 42 then I will remember my covenant with Jacob, and I will remember my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 But the land shall be abandoned by them and enjoy its Sabbaths while it lies desolate without them, and they shall make amends for their iniquity, because they spurned my rules and their soul abhorred my statutes. 44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not spurn them, neither will I abhor them so as to destroy them utterly and break my covenant with them, for I am the Lord their God. 45 But I will for their sake remember the covenant with their forefathers, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.”

46 These are the statutes and rules and laws that the Lord made between himself and the people of Israel through Moses on Mount Sinai.


Genesis 3:1-24 ESV

The Fall

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” 11 He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 The Lord God said to the serpent,

“Because you have done this,
    cursed are you above all livestock
    and above all beasts of the field;
on your belly you shall go,
    and dust you shall eat
    all the days of your life.
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
    and you shall bruise his heel.”

16 To the woman he said,

“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
    in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband,
    but he shall rule over you.”

17 And to Adam he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
    and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you,
    ‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
    in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
    and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your face
    you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
    for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
    and to dust you shall return.”

20 The man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. 21 And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.

22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

Genesis 4: 1-12 ESV

Cain and Abel

1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord.” And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. In the course of time Cain brought to the Lordan offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his face fell. The Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.”

Cain spoke to Abel his brother. And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him. Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” He said, “I do not know; am I my brother’s keeper?” 10 And the Lord said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength.

Related Articles:

See 16 Nov: Bishop Brian Tamaki blames gays, murderers and sinners for earthquakes

See 17 Nov: Why is there such a problem with the concept God uses the forces of Nature to chastise and Judge in this World

See 18 Nov: Straight Talking “The Tamaki Shakes”

See 19 Nov: Another perspective on the “Tamaki Shake”

See 20 Nov. Tamaki Shakes~Heads-up “Could God be dealing with a Nation”

References   [ + ]

1. https://carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/how-are-we-affected-sin

The slippery slope of moral bankruptcy

Seriously folks if you didn’t know this is what a **the slippery slope of moral bankruptcy*** looks like and it’s not the end of the slide.

fools mountain
Article: I breastfeed my boyfriend’:

“Mum, 36, uses pumps and pills to help her ‘feed’ her gym buff lover every TWO HOURS”

It started at fool’s mountain “there is no God” and ends at the eternal fiery lake

00.0 The Book of Revelation OVERVIEW

Revelation (the Book) feature

This series is in depth study and review with biblical commentary provided by Rev. Jack van Impe

About Jack Leo Van Impe (born February 9, 1931): is an American televangelist who is known for his half-hour weekly television series Jack Van Impe Presents, an eschatological commentary on the news of the week through his interpretation of the Bible. The program airs throughout the United States, Canada, and several other countries through both religious broadcasters and the purchase of paid programming time on commercial television stations. Van Impe’s website, claims that he is known as the “Walking Bible” because of his extensive memorization of Bible verses

The Book of Revelation: 

1st Pub Re Pub #  CHAPTER  1st Pub  Re Pub  #  CHAPTER  1st Pub  Re Pub  #  CHAPTER
19/01/14 04/01/16 01 Ch 1: 1 – 6 26/04/14 xx/xx/xx  12 Ch 10: 1 – 11 23/06/14 xx/xx/xx 23 Ch 18: 1 – 24
24/01/14 11/01/16 02 Ch 1: 7 – 20 20/05/14  13 Ch 11: 1 – 19 28/06/14 24 Ch 19: 1 – 9
04/02/14 18/01/16 03 Ch 2: 1 – 29 21/05/14  14 Ch 12: 1 – 17 04/07/14 25 Ch 19: 10 – 21
11/02/14 25/01/16 04 Ch 3: 1 – 22 30/05/14  15 Ch 13: 1 – 3 09/07/14 26 Ch 20: 1 – 6
16/02/14 01/02/16 05 Ch 4: 1 – 11 30/05/14  16 Ch 13: 4 – 18 18/07/14 27 Ch 20: 7 – 15
19/02/14 08/02/16 06 Ch 5: 1 – 14 01/06/14  17 Ch 14: 1 – 8 23/07/14 28 Ch 21: 1 – 14
26/02/14 15/02/16 07 Ch 6: 1 – 4 01/06/14  18 Ch 14: 9 – 20 01/08/14 29 Ch 21: 15 – 27
06/03/14 22/02/16 08 Ch 6: 5 – 17 17/06/14  19 Ch 15: 1 – 8 15/07/14 30 Ch 22: 1 – 21
12/03/14 29/02/16 09 Ch 7: 1 – 17 20/06/14  20 Ch 16: 1 – 9
25/03/14 07/03/16 10 Ch 8:1 – 9:12 20/06/14  21 Ch 16: 10 – 21
26/03/14 14/03/16 11 Ch 9: 13 – 21 22/06/14  22 Ch 17: 1 – 18

Related: The Book of Daniel

by Jack van Impe

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The Story of Christmas in History Recalled: A Son is Born

 God Sends His Son!

Foretold in the Old Testament:
  • Isaiah 7:14  (ESV): Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel
  • Isaiah 9:6  (GNT): A child is born to us!  A son is given to us!  And he will be our ruler.  He will be called, “Wonderful Counselor,”  “Mighty God,” “Eternal Father,”   “Prince of Peace.”
  • Micah 5:2 (ESV): But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.
  • Zechariah 9:9 (ESV): Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; righteous and having salvation is he, humble and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
Fulfilled in the New Testament:

Usury

Usury USURY WAS STRONGLY CONDEMNED 

Usury = Interest charged or paid on a loan.

Prov. 28:8 (ESV)

v.8 Whoever multiplies his wealth by interest and profit 

gathers it for him who is generous to the poor.

Footnotes: Proverbs 28:8 That is, profit that comes from charging interest to the poor

Ezek 18:8, 13, 17 (ESV)

v.8 does not lend at interest or take any profit, withholds his hand from injustice, executes true justice between man and man,

v.13 lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself.

v.17 withholds his hand from iniquity, takes no interest or profit, obeys my rules, and walks in my statutes; he shall not die for his father’s iniquity; he shall surely live.

Footnotes:

  • Ezekiel 18:8 That is, profit that comes from charging interest to the poor; also verses 13, 17 (compare Leviticus 25:36)
  • Ezekiel 18:17 Septuagint; Hebrew from the poor

Ezek 22:12  (ESV)

v.12 In you they take bribes to shed blood; you take interest and profit and make gain of your neighbors by extortion; but me you have forgotten, declares the Lord God.

Footnotes:

Ezekiel 22:12 That is, profit that comes from charging interest to the poor (compare Leviticus 25:36)

 

Ps. 15:5 who does not put out his money at interest and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved.

“Marriage equality in Australia” Open Letter: to incumbent Local Federal Member

No Gay Marriage Button

Subject: Bill Shorten’s bill “Marriage equality in Australia”

Dear “Name of Local Federal Member of Parliament“,

The Liberal Party should vote as one to defeat Bill Shorten’s bill “Marriage equality in Australia”. The Morality of Marriage is no different than Defining what Murder is a process I’m sure the incumbent political party would not classify as a conscience vote issue or just as issues like Asylum Seekers or Climate Change Policies are not considered a conscience vote issue.

Hetrosexual Marriage is indisputably a rightly, natural timeless and sustainable foundation for our society dating back to the earliest records of mankind. Any alternative will erode the environment of our society for the raising and nurturing of the next generation and others to follow.

Failure to vote as one to defeat the same-sex marriage bill will be an action to “FAIL AUSTRALIA’S BEST INTERESTS AND FUTURE” and an act of betrayl to Hetrosexual Marriage which is the absolute core to any civilised society.

Such Failure will not be forgotten by many like myself who believe in these fundamental core values at the next election and many more to come.

Sincerely,

Gary Green
dated: 31st May 2015


acl_logoYour voice is needed now to preserve marriage
On Monday Opposition Leader Bill Shorten will introduce a bill to redefine marriage in Australia.

Marriage is the union of one man and one woman, voluntarily entered into for life.

It provides a natural, timeless and sustainable foundation for our society.

Marriage secures a better future for society by providing the best environment for raising society’s next generation.

Redefining marriage would redefine family.

By definition same-sex parenting means intentionally removing a child from either their mum or dad.

Experience overseas has demonstrated that people who disagree with same-sex marriage are often punished by law.

Please email your MP today and ask them to vote against Bill Shorten’s same-sex marriage bill.

We’ve made it very easy for you to Email your MP and Senators: Do this  today HERE

The Rewards of Confrontation & it takes two to tango.

do not reject the Lord’s discipline…‘ Proverbs 3:11 NCV

The Bible says, ‘Do not reject the Lord’s discipline, and don’t get angry when He corrects you. The Lord corrects those He loves, just as parents correct the child they delight in‘ (Proverbs 3:11-12 NCV).

Because God loves you, when He sees things in your life that could potentially damage you and other people, He deals with them.

Paul writes, ‘Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God…‘ (Romans 11:22 NKJV).

God will deal with you gently, but if you don’t listen He may have to deal with you severely. That’s because He has too much invested in you to let you fail.

Not only does God confront us, He expects us to confront one another when we’re in the wrong.

Paul stood up to Peter, his fellow leader, in front of Jewish and Gentile believers because the issue was important to their mission’s success (Gal 2:14).

Healthy confrontation results in six things:

(1) Clarification. You get a better understanding of the person and what happened.

(2) Change. Hopefully improvement will come from it – and the improvement may be in you!

(3) An improved relationship. Handled correctly, confrontation will deepen your relationship with the other person.

(4) Purity. As word gets out, the organisation will be purified and sobered.

(5) Respect. People will appreciate and respect your leadership even more.

(6) Security. They’ll feel safe knowing that you’re strong enough to take a stand when it counts. People want a leader who says, ‘When there’s a problem I’ll deal with it directly, promptly and respectfully. I’ll help correct the situation and get us back on track.’

Soul Food: Judges 16:1-19:15; Matt 13:1-9; Ps 45; Pro 13:13-16

Written by Bob & Debby Gass

Monday, 25 May 2015


For what its worth words from the Editor:

2TANGO-1000W

by the Editor of 4cm:

ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND it takes two to tango.

The results of confronting wrong depends one two parties not one.

How the confront-er carries out the confrontation does have influence.

However does not finally determine the outcomes!

The confronted, will finally shape the outcomes by their responses.

We need to remember the confrontation is because of things being done wrong. The purpose of the confrontation is not to negotiate what wrong and right is; the purpose of the confrontation is to bring a cessation of wrong behaviour from the perpetrator.

The  perpetrator may actually choose to stand their ground and claim wrong is right, and at that point one is wasting their breath attempting to make reason with the person; just bow out with a firm but non abusive summary of your position and remove yourself from the contact.

You will mostly find and successive attempts to repair the breach will only widen the cassim between the parties as basically we have two worlds of opinion which will never run parallel in the same world.

In a perfect world the pieces of the puzzle would be put together however we just do not live yet in a perfect world nor are there any perfect people you and I included.

Romans 12:18 English Standard Version (ESV)

18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.